EV Discussion thread

Grumpy_chap

shinytop said:

That's shocking.  Are other brands increasing too?  If not, why would anyone buy a Tesla?    

Yes, I understand the price of most cars has increased out of all proportion to anything else.  I only gave one example that I had accurate numbers for.

shinytop said:

Sadly I can't have a smart meter so 2p a mile is fantasy.  

This is actually a query I have about how accurate the low EV running costs that are sometimes quoted are.

Some have solar, which is great.  But if not used to charge EV, that free solar could be used for another purpose (or sold).  Saying the EV was "free" is not quite right in that case.

Some have TOU tariffs and manage to achieve very cheap charging overnight, apparently.  How much of that overnight saving for the EV is lost because day tariff for normal living electric consumption is increased?

QrizB

Grumpy_chap said:

Some have TOU tariffs and manage to achieve very cheap charging overnight, apparently.  How much of that overnight saving for the EV is lost because day tariff for normal living electric consumption is increased?

Every so often, one of us with a TOU tariff will share their average unit price.

I don't have a bill to hand but from memory over the last year I've used 2x as much on the cheap night rate as on the daytime rate. My average unit price has been around 8p/kWh.

My 12 months on 5p/15p is up next month. I'm looking to renew on 7.5p/40p. If I can keep the same split of day vs night, my new average unit price will be about 18p/kWh.

EricMears

QrizB said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Some have TOU tariffs and manage to achieve very cheap charging overnight, apparently.  How much of that overnight saving for the EV is lost because day tariff for normal living electric consumption is increased?

Every so often, one of us with a TOU tariff will share their average unit price.

I don't have a bill to hand but from memory over the last year I've used 2x as much on the cheap night rate as on the daytime rate. My average unit price has been around 8p/kWh.

My 12 months on 5p/15p is up next month. I'm looking to renew on 7.5p/40p. If I can keep the same split of day vs night, my new average unit price will be about 18p/kWh.

So far in August I've bought 77.65 kWh Daytime units  (34.4ppu) and 100.5 kWh Offpeak units (8.25ppu) giving an average unit price of 19.7 ppu.  And of course I've used a lot of 'free' daytime units but O only tend to work out percent usage of generation at month end (for July that was 40% used : 60% donated to grid or it was 60:40 in Jan)

silverwhistle

Grumpy_chap said:

This is actually a query I have about how accurate the low EV running costs that are sometimes quoted are.

Some have solar, which is great.  But if not used to charge EV, that free solar could be used for another purpose (or sold).  Saying the EV was "free" is not quite right in that case.

Some have TOU tariffs and manage to achieve very cheap charging overnight, apparently.  How much of that overnight saving for the EV is lost because day tariff for normal living electric consumption is increased?

It's a very individual situation depending on a number of variables. The capital cost I was referring to for mine was 5.5 times more expensive than any other car I'd bought so need to get my running costs down!

But in my case any solar I use _is_ effectively free in that the capital cost of the system has already been ammortised, although exactly when I couldn't say depending on what price you put on my hot water. I don't have a battery so the priority at the moment tends to be excess goes to the HW tank via an automated diverter until there is enough generation at just over 2kW when I start charging the car, to avoid purchase of higher rate units. This is an entirely manual process using the energy display, weather forecast, weather radar app and Mark 1 Eyeball at first floor level to make sure it's worth the bother of plugging in. Some people with Zappis etc. have automated this and are able to specify which usage gets priority and they can much more effectively take advantage of charging as the electronics takes care of the passing cloud scenario such that they will not import.

I juggle the various usages I have, so that it isn't a question of the solar "could be used for another purpose". It could be, of course, but it isn't needed.

In winter I purely charge overnight, and I've never had a situation where I needed more than the four hours on cheaper rate, given my usage and that I'm not starting the charge with an empty battery. This works for me although with a current DD of £20 not sure how that is going to change. I'm in credit at the moment..

Not sure on my TOU proportions but things like the dishwasher I run overnight.

70sbudgie

Except for occasions like yesterday / today (when I forgot to plug my car in and had to top it up over breakfast), I charge my car overnight, at the 20p/kWhr rate. My charger is 7kW and my generation has a continous peak of about 2.7kW (as opposed to the spikey generation that gives larger, short peaks). So without a variable charger, it isn't currently worth me charging off solar (as more will end up being at the high rate). At an average of 4 miles /kWhr, I consider my mileage rate to be 5p/mile.  In reality, it is lower than that as I frequently charge for free at work. 

EricMears

Grumpy_chap said:

This is actually a query I have about how accurate the low EV running costs that are sometimes quoted are.

Some have solar, which is great.  But if not used to charge EV, that free solar could be used for another purpose (or sold).  Saying the EV was "free" is not quite right in that case.

If (like me) you're on the FIT scheme and being paid (a trivial amount) for exporting a deemed 50% of your generation then however much or little you actually export makes no difference to the payment you receive.  It is therefore quite easy to regard cost of using your self-generated electricity as being 'free'.

You might regard that as 'fraud' - but if you do feel that way,  please also condemn the system of paying for only 50% of generation when unless you work very hard at it, most people export rather more than 50%

Actually,  I very seldom charge the car from my solar 'surplus' : it's too much like hard work to keep looking out of window for clouds &/or carefully monitoring nett metering indication in order to stop when there's not enough power to avoid importing.  Much safer to pay 8.25ppu and charge it overnight.

Magnitio

Quality journalism from the Telegraph:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/electric-cars-will-be-more-expensive-to-run-than-petrol/ar-AA119EGf?fromMaestro=true

"The owner of a Jaguar i-PACE, an electric SUV, would spend £99 more to travel the same distance as a driver in the petrol equivalent, the Jaguar f-PACE, according to calculations by breakdown service, the RAC.

The petrol version can travel around 400 miles on a full tank of petrol, which would cost around £50. The electric model only has a range of 290 miles and would need multiple charges to travel 400 miles – this would cost £99 more after October’s electricity price hike."

So, a 60 litre tank of petrol costs £50? And charging an i-Pace "multiple times" will cost £149 to cover 400 miles? I guess at 2miles/kWh and 75p/kWh that might be about right.

Spies

Hey if people believe that rubbish and it drives down used prices, I'm all for it. 

Grumpy_chap

Why?
I just received a marketing e-mail for the new Peugeot 408:
https://www.peugeot.co.uk/models/408.html
It looks nice enough, but as far as I can tell only available in petrol or PHEV options - no EV version.
Why would a new car be launched which does not have an EV version?

NoobSolar

Ericmears: get a Zappi?