EV Discussion thread

70sbudgie

Grumpy_chap said:

shinytop said:

Grumpy_chap said:

QrizB said:

Grumpy_chap said:

If I go by car, I can claim 45 pence per mile so long as I provide a petrol receipt dated on the day of travel.  Out of interest, I asked how an EV could be claimed and I was told the claim would be rejected unless supported with petrol receipt dated on the day, as per expenses policy.

Do you have a petrol mower, or a motorcycle, or know someone else with one? If so, a jerrycan in the boot would let you generate a receipt.

My comment in relation to an EV car was purely hypothetical as I don't have one.

The consideration to use the train was far more realistic as it offers a number of advantages over the car:

• I get some exercise walking to the station
• Greener
• Cheaper ticket price than mileage
• No demand on limited car parking at workplace
• I can work on the train, checking e-mails etc.

With more than one ICE in the household, there would always be a way that can get a petrol receipt on the day.  The thing is, to travel by train and then claim mileage is lying - fraud and there are ways the employer would know you had not driven if they cross-checked between different systems they have.

Given the mileage paid is more than the price of the train ticket, there would also be a BIK liability if that was reimbursed at the mileage rate.

It's simply not worth claiming mileage against a train journey but the outcome of the company policy is it forces me to travel by car for a journey that could just as easily be done via alternate options.

Why doesn't your employer let you claim train travel?  Is it because it's more expensive? 

I thought I would try the train yesterday to attend a meeting - the meeting times meant I could leave a little later plus there was a "social" after the end of the day and I don't drive if I've had even one small drink so that was a big "win" from using the train.

Cost of the train return ticket was £14.
Door-to-door about 1 hours 15 minutes, including my walk to the station (so good exercise and fresh air and encounter with nature as I walk the riverside / re-wilding path to the station)
Worked on the train

Last week, I claimed mileage £31.50 and obviously not able to work while driving.  That also took 1 hour or a little more door-to-door.

I asked about whether I could reclaim the train ticket cost and it was confirmed as not permitted.  My Manager could not give any real reason or explanation other than "those are the rules set by the Board - did I want to raise it with the Board?"  (Obviously not going to happen.)

Very odd...

The only thing I can think of is if you fill in a tax return. There is a section for inputting expenses associated with doing your job that haven't been reimbursed by your employer. A train ticket to somewhere other than your usual place of work would count.

shinytop

I've been having another look at my man-maths for buying an EV and the figures are further than ever from stacking up for my situation.  The cost of mains electricity and public charging are going in the wrong direction and EVs are still far too expensive.  I can't be alone - outside heavily-subsidised salary sacrifice schemes, I can't see where demand for EVs is going to come from in the short to medium term.  There won't be many people feeling like splashing out £40k of their own money on an EV at the moment. 

Also, I wonder how businesses that have replaced diesel vehicles with EV ones are feeling now?  Some of the increases in their tariffs are far worse than the domestic caps.  Petrol and diesel prices seem to have settled down a bit.

Any alternative, more positive views  .  

EricMears

shinytop said:

I've been having another look at my man-maths for buying an EV and the figures are further than ever from stacking up for my situation.  The cost of mains electricity and public charging are going in the wrong direction and EVs are still far too expensive.  I can't be alone - outside heavily-subsidised salary sacrifice schemes, I can't see where demand for EVs is going to come from in the short to medium term.  There won't be many people feeling like splashing out £40k of their own money on an EV at the moment. 

Also, I wonder how businesses that have replaced diesel vehicles with EV ones are feeling now?  Some of the increases in their tariffs are far worse than the domestic caps.  Petrol and diesel prices seem to have settled down a bit.

Any alternative, more positive views  .  

Yes,  my views are much more positive.

Majority of my charging is & always has been at home on a TOD tariff - for the last couple of years Octopus 'Go-Faster'.  Although the off-peak rate has recently risen by 50% (5.5ppu to 8.25ppu) that still means the bulk of my mileage costs around  2p per mile.  DERV has also risen by around 50%  (approx. 120ppl to 180ppl) so at 40mpg (an optimistic overall value for my last ICE car)  it would cost around 20p/mile and even a 'high efficiency' model managing 60mpg would still cost around 14p/mile.

Public charging costs have also shot up but I tend to use rapid chargers at Lidl or Tesco at around 30p/kWh (giving <8p/mile) or Bonnet (PM me if you want a referral code) at 45p/kWh (giving <12p/mile)  - still less than using DERV and I don't know of any discount schemes for buying ICE fuel - indeed if you need to do that on a MSA prices are usually far more than at a supermarket.  But with 90% of charging done at home,  costs of  public EV charging  aren't all that critical.

For a further reduction in running costs,  it's still possible to add a few kWh gratis whilst shopping (whereas best offer on ICE fuel is probably a voucher for a 10ppl reduction).

I didn't "splash out £40k of my own money on an EV" - it was more like £30k - but my last new ICE car cost £20k (heavily discounted) 14 years ago and I'd guess that the equivalent model today would also be around £30k.  Admittedly there's little opportunity to buy a clapped out 10+ year old EV at modest cost but there's every chance that may be possible in a few years time.

So on purely economic grounds I consider an EV to be well justified.  But that completely ignores the case for reducing pollution - not an easily quantifiable cost for individuals but surely well worthwhile for society.

silverwhistle

Capital costs are an issue, mine new was just under £22k, but running costs hardly justify their separate line on the spreadsheet as given that I charge at home, until recently at 5p a unit and now 7.5, it's less than 2p a mile. I've needed to pay for less than 10kWh of electricity to get me home, and some chance free units along with charging at home on solar ensure it's not something I have to worry about.

To be honest, if I did more mileage it would make more economic sense but I intend to keep it for a long time as I do all my cars, normally from a much older starting point! It'll be the ex-lease cars that feed the vital second hand market so that should improve in a couple of years.

Grumpy_chap

silverwhistle said:

Capital costs are an issue, 

This has become startlingly so recently.
In summer 2021, the cheapest Tesla was a tad under £35k.
Today, that same car is not far short of £50k.

I know there are extraordinary circumstances affecting car supply across the board, but that type of price movement simply can't be sustainable.

shinytop

Sadly I can't have a smart meter so 2p a mile is fantasy.  Even if I did, like a lot of people my mileage isn't spread out evenly over the days but is mostly long trips and 3 hours isn't going to get me a full charge, leaving me at the mercy of public charging. 

Assuming public charging goes up with the price cap, ICE and EV will be about at parity for running costs for me. 

I understand the comment about doing one's bit for emissions but there are maybe some other things with more bang for the buck than an EV at the moment.    

shinytop

Grumpy_chap said:

silverwhistle said:

Capital costs are an issue, 

This has become startlingly so recently.
In summer 2021, the cheapest Tesla was a tad under £35k.
Today, that same car is not far short of £50k.

I know there are extraordinary circumstances affecting car supply across the board, but that type of price movement simply can't be sustainable.

That's shocking.  Are other brands increasing too?  If not, why would anyone buy a Tesla?    

70sbudgie

My servicing and insurance costs are also lower with my EV than they were for my previous car. The one exception is if a tyre needs replacing. EV need special tyres and replacing a pair recently almost killed the previous year's savings!

michaels

70sbudgie said:

My servicing and insurance costs are also lower with my EV than they were for my previous car. The one exception is if a tyre needs replacing. EV need special tyres and replacing a pair recently almost killed the previous year's savings!

What EV is that, mine just takes normal tyres

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

silverwhistle said:

Capital costs are an issue, 

This has become startlingly so recently.
In summer 2021, the cheapest Tesla was a tad under £35k.
Today, that same car is not far short of £50k.

I know there are extraordinary circumstances affecting car supply across the board, but that type of price movement simply can't be sustainable.

Hiya GC. Are you sure about that £35k price, I'm sure I recall the SR TM3 was just over £40k in 2020 before PiG incentives. Here's a 2020 article, so ~£6k more in 2020 than you said for 2021? The prices in the US went up significantly last year, for demand management, but the TM3 in the UK (now admittedly with a larger batt) didn't jump till early this year, when the Chinese Factory had a Covid shutdown, and delivery times shot up. 

Weirdly, the increase in the TM3 by about £6k(?) wasn't matched in the TMY, whose price remained steady. So the TM3 almost rose up to TMY prices.

From what I've read and watched, most pundits seem to estimate that about 25% of the increase is rising commodity prices, and the rest is demand management as delivery times went to 6-12 months, and folk started selling on new cars, especially in the US, for a profit, some buying a car a week, and making ~$2k on each. I think there's a clause now in China, preventing this.

UK prices will move with China production and demand, and also RHD demand on that side of the World, so Berlin production won't make a difference to us.

Crazy times, crazy demand, and crazy prices. I hope things get back to normal soon .....if.... supply can ramp up to meet demand.