EV Discussion thread

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  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 4,874 Forumite
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    I was thinking, recently, that the time I gave up my EV just happened to coincide with when supermarkets and retail parks started charging - a lot more than it cost me to charge at home. I hadn’t realised how much fee charging was still available. One of the reason we enjoyed a day out in Meadowhall was that we got a free charge - maybe 30kWh, if I planned it well which was more than enough to cover the round trip. It is no coincidence that we haven’t been as often since. I imagine though that the 50 or so chargers there would be completely overwhelmed now if that perk still existed. Back then ((October 2022)) it was just a few Tesla owners and taxi drivers and more than half the stalls would be empty. 


    Can I charge an electric car for free?

    If you’re prepared to track them down, there are still chargers that will let you top up your electric car for free. Here's everything you need to know...


    At the time of writing, Pod Point has 9200 charging bays around the UK – and some of them are free to use. You’ll need to create an account and download the app to authorise the charging, but doing so won’t cost a penny.

    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • MeteredOut
    MeteredOut Posts: 1,493 Forumite
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    I really don't get this "second car values dropping is bad for existing owners" sentiment, unless for some reason you think your car is an investment.

    It's the same way people should want house prices to be falling if they're upsizing, but very few do.

    People are weird.
  • MeteredOut
    MeteredOut Posts: 1,493 Forumite
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    edited 16 February at 12:13PM
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    JKenH said:
    I was thinking, recently, that the time I gave up my EV just happened to coincide with when supermarkets and retail parks started charging - a lot more than it cost me to charge at home. I hadn’t realised how much fee charging was still available. One of the reason we enjoyed a day out in Meadowhall was that we got a free charge - maybe 30kWh, if I planned it well which was more than enough to cover the round trip. It is no coincidence that we haven’t been as often since. I imagine though that the 50 or so chargers there would be completely overwhelmed now if that perk still existed. Back then ((October 2022)) it was just a few Tesla owners and taxi drivers and more than half the stalls would be empty. 


    Can I charge an electric car for free?

    If you’re prepared to track them down, there are still chargers that will let you top up your electric car for free. Here's everything you need to know...


    At the time of writing, Pod Point has 9200 charging bays around the UK – and some of them are free to use. You’ll need to create an account and download the app to authorise the charging, but doing so won’t cost a penny.

    I think free charging is on the way out. It's just not sustainable, and just because there are 9200, it does not mean they are working (the providor has less incentive to fix them on priority) or that they'll be available (more likely someone will charge to 100% and hog the charge point).

    What I expect is some sort of affiliate discounting - eg, Spend £50 at Tesco, get 15p/kWh for the period you parked there - the same as happened with supermarket fuel forecourts.
  • silvercar
    silvercar Posts: 47,105 Ambassador
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    JKenH said:
    I was thinking, recently, that the time I gave up my EV just happened to coincide with when supermarkets and retail parks started charging - a lot more than it cost me to charge at home. I hadn’t realised how much fee charging was still available. One of the reason we enjoyed a day out in Meadowhall was that we got a free charge - maybe 30kWh, if I planned it well which was more than enough to cover the round trip. It is no coincidence that we haven’t been as often since. I imagine though that the 50 or so chargers there would be completely overwhelmed now if that perk still existed. Back then ((October 2022)) it was just a few Tesla owners and taxi drivers and more than half the stalls would be empty. 


    Can I charge an electric car for free?

    If you’re prepared to track them down, there are still chargers that will let you top up your electric car for free. Here's everything you need to know...


    At the time of writing, Pod Point has 9200 charging bays around the UK – and some of them are free to use. You’ll need to create an account and download the app to authorise the charging, but doing so won’t cost a penny.

    I think free charging is on the way out. It's just not sustainable, and just because there are 9200, it does not mean they are working (the providor has less incentive to fix them on priority) or that they'll be available (more likely someone will charge to 100% and hog the charge point).
    do.
    What I expect is some sort of affiliate discounting - eg, Spend £50 at Tesco, get 15p/kWh for the period you parked there - the same as happened with supermarket fuel forecourts.
    I have free podpoint parking near me, its at a train station where you pay to park- so not actually free. But worth doing. I can find a charger free about 30% of the time. Luckily the app tells you if the charger is free, so you don't need to visit to find one and its less than 10 minute walk from home, so it is easy to 
    I'm a Forum Ambassador on The Coronavirus Boards as well as the housing, mortgages and student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 4,874 Forumite
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    I really don't get this "second car values dropping is bad for existing owners" sentiment, unless for some reason you think your car is an investment.

    It's the same way people should want house prices to be falling if they're upsizing, but very few do.

    People are weird.
    I am happy for them to be dropping as I am on the look out for one but I am looking at the lower end of the market. If I was contemplating spending £40-50k on a car then the residual value would be an important consideration and I would hope it wasn’t going to fall too much. If I thought it was then I would either not buy it or wait until it fell far enough for me to think it wouldn’t fall much further. If I was sure it wouldn’t fall much I would be happier to buy. Morgan cars famously used to hold their value very well with a 6-7 year waiting list, because supply was limited and that in turn stimulated demand. 

    Part of what prompted the surge in private purchases of new EVs a couple of years ago was the thought that EVs didn’t lose money, in fact some were selling secondhand above list price. Then demand exceeded supply but that situation has now reversed, and while demand is still increasing, supply of both new and used EVs is increasing faster leading to falling new and used prices. The more new prices fall the faster used prices fall and that lack of confidence in the market causes people to hold off making purchases so prices fall further. Other factors such as increased living costs, higher electricity prices and higher interest rates have all suppressed demand for both new and used cars. The ICE market is not immune but it is a more mature market and hence suffers less volatility. Because of the volatility in EV prices some motor traders, outright, decided to stop stocking EVs and that just caused even more volatility. 

    The motor trade is trying to put a floor under falling prices by not releasing as many fleet cars onto the market. Octopus, I believe one of the largest EV leasing companies, has started leasing out used EVs. They will no doubt say they are meeting a demand but the reality is they don’t want to crystallise losses by selling used EVs into an oversupplied market so as they come off lease they offer them on new contracts. 

    China is struggling with a massive oversupply of electric cars and that is what has caused the price war there that has now spread along with their cars to Europe. 
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 4,874 Forumite
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    JKenH said:
    I was thinking, recently, that the time I gave up my EV just happened to coincide with when supermarkets and retail parks started charging - a lot more than it cost me to charge at home. I hadn’t realised how much fee charging was still available. One of the reason we enjoyed a day out in Meadowhall was that we got a free charge - maybe 30kWh, if I planned it well which was more than enough to cover the round trip. It is no coincidence that we haven’t been as often since. I imagine though that the 50 or so chargers there would be completely overwhelmed now if that perk still existed. Back then ((October 2022)) it was just a few Tesla owners and taxi drivers and more than half the stalls would be empty. 


    Can I charge an electric car for free?

    If you’re prepared to track them down, there are still chargers that will let you top up your electric car for free. Here's everything you need to know...


    At the time of writing, Pod Point has 9200 charging bays around the UK – and some of them are free to use. You’ll need to create an account and download the app to authorise the charging, but doing so won’t cost a penny.

    I think free charging is on the way out. It's just not sustainable, and just because there are 9200, it does not mean they are working (the providor has less incentive to fix them on priority) or that they'll be available (more likely someone will charge to 100% and hog the charge point).

    What I expect is some sort of affiliate discounting - eg, Spend £50 at Tesco, get 15p/kWh for the period you parked there - the same as happened with supermarket fuel forecourts.
    The big problem with that is, if Tesco give people a cheap charging voucher and then there are no charging spaces available, it will backfire on them with dissatisfied customers. Which annoys you the most - paying standard price for a product or there being a BOGOF offer on and there is only one item left on the shelf?
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,819 Forumite
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    JKenH said:
    I was thinking, recently, that the time I gave up my EV just happened to coincide with when supermarkets and retail parks started charging - a lot more than it cost me to charge at home. I hadn’t realised how much fee charging was still available. One of the reason we enjoyed a day out in Meadowhall was that we got a free charge - maybe 30kWh, if I planned it well which was more than enough to cover the round trip. It is no coincidence that we haven’t been as often since. I imagine though that the 50 or so chargers there would be completely overwhelmed now if that perk still existed. Back then ((October 2022)) it was just a few Tesla owners and taxi drivers and more than half the stalls would be empty. 


    Can I charge an electric car for free?

    If you’re prepared to track them down, there are still chargers that will let you top up your electric car for free. Here's everything you need to know...


    At the time of writing, Pod Point has 9200 charging bays around the UK – and some of them are free to use. You’ll need to create an account and download the app to authorise the charging, but doing so won’t cost a penny.

    I think free charging is on the way out. It's just not sustainable, and just because there are 9200, it does not mean they are working (the providor has less incentive to fix them on priority) or that they'll be available (more likely someone will charge to 100% and hog the charge point).

    What I expect is some sort of affiliate discounting - eg, Spend £50 at Tesco, get 15p/kWh for the period you parked there - the same as happened with supermarket fuel forecourts.
    Yep. The fuel saving, say 5p or 10p off a litre, is to encourage you to shop there. Perhaps that saves you £2 to £5. If they allow free 2kW, or even 7kW charging for an hour, then at current retail rates, that's about £2 to £2.50. Comparable 'cost' to the supermarket, and an incentive to shop there for PEV owners, if it's the deciding factor.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 15,029 Forumite
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    1961Nick said:
    I've seen the deals on these, look great value. I'd say that smashes any equivalent ICE vehicle costs especially if you can mostly charge at home.
    Total cost over 2 years is around £4300 for the lease. Outstanding value
    I'm considering one just to use to part commute to a zone 6 station as it will pay for itself in lower train fares.
    There are always models available on amazing deals for whatever reason the manufacturer needs to shift stock.
    That deal seems similar to the one a couple of years back for the Scala:
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6281243/lease-cheap-deal-skoda-scala-se-l-8000-miles-rfl-included-3-23-broker-fee-total-cost-4149-55/p1

    I think, if I hadn't purchase my TM3 last year, I'd have a go with one of these GWM ORA's on that lease deal - a very competitive way to trial the EV experience and see if it works.
  • MeteredOut
    MeteredOut Posts: 1,493 Forumite
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    edited 16 February at 4:54PM
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    JKenH said:
    JKenH said:
    I was thinking, recently, that the time I gave up my EV just happened to coincide with when supermarkets and retail parks started charging - a lot more than it cost me to charge at home. I hadn’t realised how much fee charging was still available. One of the reason we enjoyed a day out in Meadowhall was that we got a free charge - maybe 30kWh, if I planned it well which was more than enough to cover the round trip. It is no coincidence that we haven’t been as often since. I imagine though that the 50 or so chargers there would be completely overwhelmed now if that perk still existed. Back then ((October 2022)) it was just a few Tesla owners and taxi drivers and more than half the stalls would be empty. 


    Can I charge an electric car for free?

    If you’re prepared to track them down, there are still chargers that will let you top up your electric car for free. Here's everything you need to know...


    At the time of writing, Pod Point has 9200 charging bays around the UK – and some of them are free to use. You’ll need to create an account and download the app to authorise the charging, but doing so won’t cost a penny.

    I think free charging is on the way out. It's just not sustainable, and just because there are 9200, it does not mean they are working (the providor has less incentive to fix them on priority) or that they'll be available (more likely someone will charge to 100% and hog the charge point).

    What I expect is some sort of affiliate discounting - eg, Spend £50 at Tesco, get 15p/kWh for the period you parked there - the same as happened with supermarket fuel forecourts.
    The big problem with that is, if Tesco give people a cheap charging voucher and then there are no charging spaces available, it will backfire on them with dissatisfied customers. Which annoys you the most - paying standard price for a product or there being a BOGOF offer on and there is only one item left on the shelf?
    Yes, good point. They'd obviously have to get their infrastructure in place first. Or, they may it so that its only for those already parked and charging when they walk into the shop.

    Around here, a number of the supermarkets are starting to build up their EV charging points capacity in their existing car parks. It's funny to read the local facebook groups where some ICE vehicle owners are complaining about their rights being eroded. Some are very easy to wind up :)
  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 4,874 Forumite
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    A couple of quotes below from the latest ZapMap report on charging. Interestingly the second quote confirms my own behaviour. I was far less sensitive to charging prices than I am to fuel prices. I will choose where to fill up just to save a couple of pence per litre (less than 2% difference ) but when rapid charging I didn’t mind how much I paid. Convenience/availability was the only criteria - I was just relieved when I found an available working charger. Perhaps, that is why charge point operators can get away with charging 80p/kWh.


    REVEALED: How public charging prices changed in 2023 – and why


    One major factor has been a change to the grid code that means operators are having to absorb standing charges that are, in some cases, 10 times what they were two years ago. In parallel, charge point operators are facing increasing pressure to deliver a good return on investment. 

    Although 2023 saw some charge point operators increase their prices to move more in line with the market, the changing mix of public charging options and the shift in use from rapid to ultra-rapid devices is also a contributing factor. This is particularly significant because we know that electric car drivers were less likely to seek out a cheaper alternative to refuel than when driving a petrol or diesel car.


    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
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