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EV Discussion thread

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  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 4,889 Forumite
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    edited 16 February at 2:07PM
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    JKenH said:
    JKenH said:
    I was thinking, recently, that the time I gave up my EV just happened to coincide with when supermarkets and retail parks started charging - a lot more than it cost me to charge at home. I hadn’t realised how much fee charging was still available. One of the reason we enjoyed a day out in Meadowhall was that we got a free charge - maybe 30kWh, if I planned it well which was more than enough to cover the round trip. It is no coincidence that we haven’t been as often since. I imagine though that the 50 or so chargers there would be completely overwhelmed now if that perk still existed. Back then ((October 2022)) it was just a few Tesla owners and taxi drivers and more than half the stalls would be empty. 


    Can I charge an electric car for free?

    If you’re prepared to track them down, there are still chargers that will let you top up your electric car for free. Here's everything you need to know...


    At the time of writing, Pod Point has 9200 charging bays around the UK – and some of them are free to use. You’ll need to create an account and download the app to authorise the charging, but doing so won’t cost a penny.

    I think free charging is on the way out. It's just not sustainable, and just because there are 9200, it does not mean they are working (the providor has less incentive to fix them on priority) or that they'll be available (more likely someone will charge to 100% and hog the charge point).

    What I expect is some sort of affiliate discounting - eg, Spend £50 at Tesco, get 15p/kWh for the period you parked there - the same as happened with supermarket fuel forecourts.
    The big problem with that is, if Tesco give people a cheap charging voucher and then there are no charging spaces available, it will backfire on them with dissatisfied customers. Which annoys you the most - paying standard price for a product or there being a BOGOF offer on and there is only one item left on the shelf?
    Yes, good point. They'd obviously have to get their infrastructure in place first.

    Around here, a number of the supermarkets are starting to build up their EV charging points capacity in their existing car parks. It's funny to read the local facebook groups where some ICE vehicle owners are complaining about their rights being eroded. Some are very easy to wind up :)
    Yes, I have seen posts and articles complaining about the number of parking spaces being taken up by EV chargers but I wouldn’t say it’s funny, any more than saying it’s funny to see EV chargers being ICE’d. We must move away from this EV/ICE driver divide. I see far more negativity being expressed on EV forums towards ICE drivers than the reverse. In fact many EV drivers on Facebook introduce comments that they imply ICE drivers will make just to have a dig at them as a group. Some very rude comments are made. 

    Different people make different life choices and they can change as circumstances change. We mustn’t presume ours is the only correct point of view and that others who see the world differently should be sneered or laughed at. 

    Peace and love.

    Edit: I just had a look in Facebook to see how long it would take to find a rude comment on EV Drivers UK Facebook page. Didn’t have to go back very far.

    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 15,069 Forumite
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    JKenH said:
    Yes, I have seen posts and articles complaining about the number of parking spaces being taken up by EV chargers but I wouldn’t say it’s funny, any more than saying it’s funny to see EV chargers being ICE’d. 
    I think that is, in part, a sign of the reluctance of Supermarkets to do anything that might upset a customer, whether the customer is in the wrong or not.

    It is similar to the disabled parking bays at the Supermarket.  Have an appropriate number of disabled bays and some selfish people will "just stop for a moment - only getting two things" so the spaces are not available for genuine users.
    Supermarkets could enforce the access to the disabled bays.  That risks upsetting the selfish driver.
    The Supermarket take the easy option of just adding ever more disabled bays.

    What with disabled bays, parent & child bays, EV bays, Ambulance bays, hand carwash bays, Police bays, bus bays, it must a third of all the total parking space that is allocated to some specific group or other.
  • 1961Nick
    1961Nick Posts: 2,091 Forumite
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    JKenH said:
    Yes, I have seen posts and articles complaining about the number of parking spaces being taken up by EV chargers but I wouldn’t say it’s funny, any more than saying it’s funny to see EV chargers being ICE’d. 
    ............

    What with disabled bays, parent & child bays, EV bays, Ambulance bays, hand carwash bays, Police bays, bus bays, it must a third of all the total parking space that is allocated to some specific group or other.
    Are the 'Police Bays' the ones marked with a wheelchair that you see next to the front door of McDonalds? :*
    4kWp (black/black) - Sofar Inverter - SSE(141°) - 30° pitch - North Lincs
    Installed June 2013 - PVGIS = 3400
    Sofar ME3000SP Inverter & 5 x Pylontech US2000B Plus & 3 x US2000C Batteries - 19.2kWh
  • MeteredOut
    MeteredOut Posts: 1,509 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 16 February at 5:01PM
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    JKenH said:
    JKenH said:
    JKenH said:
    I was thinking, recently, that the time I gave up my EV just happened to coincide with when supermarkets and retail parks started charging - a lot more than it cost me to charge at home. I hadn’t realised how much fee charging was still available. One of the reason we enjoyed a day out in Meadowhall was that we got a free charge - maybe 30kWh, if I planned it well which was more than enough to cover the round trip. It is no coincidence that we haven’t been as often since. I imagine though that the 50 or so chargers there would be completely overwhelmed now if that perk still existed. Back then ((October 2022)) it was just a few Tesla owners and taxi drivers and more than half the stalls would be empty. 


    Can I charge an electric car for free?

    If you’re prepared to track them down, there are still chargers that will let you top up your electric car for free. Here's everything you need to know...


    At the time of writing, Pod Point has 9200 charging bays around the UK – and some of them are free to use. You’ll need to create an account and download the app to authorise the charging, but doing so won’t cost a penny.

    I think free charging is on the way out. It's just not sustainable, and just because there are 9200, it does not mean they are working (the providor has less incentive to fix them on priority) or that they'll be available (more likely someone will charge to 100% and hog the charge point).

    What I expect is some sort of affiliate discounting - eg, Spend £50 at Tesco, get 15p/kWh for the period you parked there - the same as happened with supermarket fuel forecourts.
    The big problem with that is, if Tesco give people a cheap charging voucher and then there are no charging spaces available, it will backfire on them with dissatisfied customers. Which annoys you the most - paying standard price for a product or there being a BOGOF offer on and there is only one item left on the shelf?
    Yes, good point. They'd obviously have to get their infrastructure in place first.

    Around here, a number of the supermarkets are starting to build up their EV charging points capacity in their existing car parks. It's funny to read the local facebook groups where some ICE vehicle owners are complaining about their rights being eroded. Some are very easy to wind up :)
    Yes, I have seen posts and articles complaining about the number of parking spaces being taken up by EV chargers but I wouldn’t say it’s funny, any more than saying it’s funny to see EV chargers being ICE’d. We must move away from this EV/ICE driver divide. I see far more negativity being expressed on EV forums towards ICE drivers than the reverse. In fact many EV drivers on Facebook introduce comments that they imply ICE drivers will make just to have a dig at them as a group. Some very rude comments are made. 

    I didn't say it was funny that standard spaces were being replaced by EV spaces, but the over the top reaction to it on the local pages. These are not "there's not enough spaces now" posts but "how dare they posts".

    But then, we all see what we want to see, no-matter how much we may not want to or how much we deny we do that.

    I agree the divide is not helpful, but divisive headlines are clickbait.

    I wouldn't say that post about Peter Jones was rude, though I've not seen the episode yet to determine whether the accusation was warranted.
  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 15,069 Forumite
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    1961Nick said:
    Are the 'Police Bays' the ones marked with a wheelchair that you see next to the front door of McDonalds? :*
    Our local Supermarket has a specific bay right at the entrance "Police Vehicles Only" and another "Ambulances Only".
    I don't know what the Fire Brigade did to get left out.
  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,100 Forumite
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    I will stop on a petrol pump in my EV and nip into the shop at the petrol station., the parking spaces are much further away from the shop....
    I think....
  • JKenH
    JKenH Posts: 4,889 Forumite
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    edited 17 February at 11:37AM
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    40% discount on a brand new Corsa-e so down to £19,795

    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309061619076


    Cheapest petrol Corsa in same GS trim is £16,954 (23% discount) but a cheaper trim level is available at £14,824 (24.5% discount). 

    Edit: I should all three prices are for new shape Corsas, not old stock.
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, ex Nissan Leaf owner)
  • 1961Nick
    1961Nick Posts: 2,091 Forumite
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    JKenH said:
    40% discount on a brand new Corsa-e so down to £19,795

    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309061619076


    Cheapest petrol Corsa in same GS trim is £16,954 (23% discount) but a cheaper trim level is available at £14,824 (24.5% discount). 

    Edit: I should all three prices are for new shape Corsas, not old stock.
    The cheapest petrol GS I can find with 130bhp & an automatic transmission is over £21K so like for like the electric version is actually the cheapest?
    4kWp (black/black) - Sofar Inverter - SSE(141°) - 30° pitch - North Lincs
    Installed June 2013 - PVGIS = 3400
    Sofar ME3000SP Inverter & 5 x Pylontech US2000B Plus & 3 x US2000C Batteries - 19.2kWh
  • CKhalvashi
    CKhalvashi Posts: 12,067 Forumite
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    JKenH said:
    I was thinking, recently, that the time I gave up my EV just happened to coincide with when supermarkets and retail parks started charging - a lot more than it cost me to charge at home. I hadn’t realised how much fee charging was still available. One of the reason we enjoyed a day out in Meadowhall was that we got a free charge - maybe 30kWh, if I planned it well which was more than enough to cover the round trip. It is no coincidence that we haven’t been as often since. I imagine though that the 50 or so chargers there would be completely overwhelmed now if that perk still existed. Back then ((October 2022)) it was just a few Tesla owners and taxi drivers and more than half the stalls would be empty. 


    Can I charge an electric car for free?

    If you’re prepared to track them down, there are still chargers that will let you top up your electric car for free. Here's everything you need to know...


    At the time of writing, Pod Point has 9200 charging bays around the UK – and some of them are free to use. You’ll need to create an account and download the app to authorise the charging, but doing so won’t cost a penny.

    I think free charging is on the way out. It's just not sustainable, and just because there are 9200, it does not mean they are working (the providor has less incentive to fix them on priority) or that they'll be available (more likely someone will charge to 100% and hog the charge point).

    What I expect is some sort of affiliate discounting - eg, Spend £50 at Tesco, get 15p/kWh for the period you parked there - the same as happened with supermarket fuel forecourts.
    Yep. The fuel saving, say 5p or 10p off a litre, is to encourage you to shop there. Perhaps that saves you £2 to £5. If they allow free 2kW, or even 7kW charging for an hour, then at current retail rates, that's about £2 to £2.50. Comparable 'cost' to the supermarket, and an incentive to shop there for PEV owners, if it's the deciding factor.
    Our local Tesco has a great cafe that's reasonably priced (Full English and coffee for £8-ish) This would probably make it not so great for the waistline (I want to lose 20kg this year).

    I had a meeting with a prospective client last week, I may have used 3 hours of their electricity (with their permission) when there to quarter-fill the Enyaq. More and more clients for this specific business are looking at EVs for cost reasons (this is a sector with heavy car allowances or company cars typically, so there are tax savings there), so a shared environmental view can hopefully propel us.

    Where I shop is more based on convenience (it was Waitrose a few weeks ago for free parking in a town centre and I popped into Aldi to get some meat when seeing mom last week, I'm not sure where the next will be yet as it'll depend on fridge stock levels), although for those who do like to shop in one place I'm sure it will be a deciding factor.
    💙💛 💔
  • Veteransaver
    Veteransaver Posts: 509 Forumite
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    edited 18 February at 1:26AM
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    JKenH said:
    1961Nick said:


    Be careful what you wish for. An influx of really cheap Chinese cars will crush the used EV market. 

    I have been looking at an EV as a runabout for a while now and have seen the prices of electric Minis drop to around £13k with the cheapest on Auto-Trader at  £11.5k (2021, 36k miles). Not long ago the cheapest I could find was £18k. There are five MG5s available under £12k with the cheapest under £11k. There are MG ZSs available at around £10.5k. (The MG4 is holding up a bit better withe the cheapest, a 72 plate, 9k miles example at just under £18k.)  Car Giant are selling a Vauxhall Corsa-e at £9,698 and Autotrader show that as £924 above the market average. These are not trade in prices, they are garage retail. 

    If people see a brand new Ora available on lease for just over £2k a year then why take the risk buying a second hand EV and risk losing more in depreciation.


    There is an article in the Telegraph today

    For the moment, used EV prices are stabilising again as the bargains available stoke strong demand, says Marc Palmer, head of insights at Auto Trader.

    But with competition in the new car market intensifying, there are fears Chinese brands will seek to undercut their European rivals by slashing prices further – causing further ructions for second-hand sellers.

    “That is the big question – ‘will the Chinese come in more cheaply?’”, says Palmer.

    “We think they could, because they sell their cars more cheaply in China than they do in Europe. So they’ve got the ability to start more aggressive pricing.

    “And if new cars become more affordable, then prices of used cars will probably need to come down a bit to make sure they still provide value for consumers.”

    That could make more grim reading for existing EV owners, who have already been clobbered in the past year.

    Based on figures for December, Auto Trader found that an EV costing £50,000 is currently expected to lose about £24,000 of its value after just three years on the road, significantly more than the typical £17,000 reduction seen with petrol cars.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/02/16/how-crashing-second-hand-market-slammed-brakes-on-evs/

    They will crush the used car market in general, not just the EV market. If someone can lease a little runaround for £180 a month, why would they even think about getting some little secondhand ICE runabout for considerably more and then pay more to run it, and service it etc? Not sure why that is necessarily a bad thing.
    It used to be fairly normal for any run of the mill new car to lose at least 50% over 3 years.
    So I don't recognise that "only £17k reduction" quote.
    20 odd years ago only premium brands would be less than the 50% over 3 years depreciation. I recall things like Porsche Boxsters used to be one of the least depreciating models, worth around 65% of list after 3 years. Popular BMWs and Mercs were generally good too, but things like Vauxhalls and Ford were always around the 35-40%  value at 3 years.
    Things like BMW 7 series were notoriously bad too, Eg 30-35%! They were actually quite a bargain (maybe still are) when you consider how much car you were getting for your money
    I remember when the Ford Escort was replaced and Ford flogged all the remaining stock by adding Aircon and a cd player and sold them at a £12k fixed price (the Escort Finesse I think it was) Those same cars went through auction 6-9 months later at around £6.5k. I know because I was auditing a car dealer at that time. That is some serious depreciation!
    I think given all that's happening in the car market the most sensible thing is to lease or PCP these days. I don't think I'll ever buy a car again, it's a lot of capital to tie up.

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