EV Discussion thread

JKenH

More EVs = more congestion?

It seems there is concern that as EVs make the marginal cost of driving much cheaper we will drive further. This was certainly part of my mentality when I had the Leaf. At the time an 8 mile round trip to the local village Coop or doctor’s surgery would cost around 15p in the Leaf compared to around £1 in an ICE car. Now I am back in my Golf I think twice about making a separate trip to the shops and try and combine trips whereas when I had the Leaf I might just pop out to get a newspaper. 

I suppose the same argument applies when going to work. Public transport might be cheaper than driving an ICE vehicle but most probably more than the marginal cost of driving an EV. If you’ve spent £40k on an EV or are paying £300/month under a SalSac scheme it makes sense to drive as many miles locally as you can, particularly when some local councils are offering incentives such as free parking for EVs. Some people can even charge at work for free so why not take the car?

Tony Blair Institute calls for electric car road tax to avoid 'gridlock Britain'

Tony Blair’s think tank has said Jeremy Hunt must “urgently” introduce a road tax which would make driving electric cars more expensive.

James Browne, senior policy adviser at the Tony Blair Institute (TBI), called on the Chancellor to introduce a new system of road pricing to stop the country becoming “gridlock Britain”.

Analysts have warned that the Treasury must step in to plug a £25bn black hole in the nation’s finances and stop traffic jams from surging as more motorists shift to electric vehicles (EVs).

This will happen because EV drivers do not pay fuel duty. As the Government phases out petrol cars as part of its push to get to net zero carbon emissions by 2050, this means Britain’s fleet of cars will become far cheaper to run.

As it becomes cheaper, people will drive more, while the Treasury’s tax take from fuel duty disappears.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/think-tank-calls-road-tax-192658123.html

MeteredOut

I have to say that, having recently moved from a 3L diesel to an EV, I'm the opposite to what you've stated - I never really bothered about how many miles I drove in the ICE - if i needed to drive somewhere, I did so.

Now with an EV, I'm the same - I'm not going to drive somewhere just for the hell of it because I've got an EV; on the contrary, I'm probably a bit more aware of usage I've actually got a much lighter accelerator foot now. This may be because its still relatively new to me and I'm working out the range etc, but I can't see how EVs will cause more congestion.

Instead, I suspect this is the typical "slow leak" of the way things will be, to get the idea into peoples head, to normalise the thought that more taxes are on their way; anyone who does not think the fuel duty will be replaced by something else targeting motorist is naiive. I suspect we'll eventually end up in a pay-per-mile model, but that's probably a couple of decades away from a full implementation.

MikeJXE

MeteredOut said:

I have to say that, having recently moved from a 3L diesel to an EV, I'm the opposite to what you've stated - I never really bothered about how many miles I drove in the ICE - if i needed to drive somewhere, I did so.

Now with an EV, I'm the same - I'm not going to drive somewhere just for the hell of it because I've got an EV; on the contrary, I'm probably a bit more aware of usage I've actually got a much lighter accelerator foot now. This may be because its still relatively new to me and I'm working out the range etc, but I can't see how EVs will cause more congestion.

Instead, I suspect this is the typical "slow leak" of the way things will be, to get the idea into peoples head, to normalise the thought that more taxes are on their way; anyone who does not think the fuel duty will be replaced by something else targeting motorist is naiive. I suspect we'll eventually end up in a pay-per-mile model, but that's probably a couple of decades away from a full implementation.

Totally agree with you, I drive an ICE and no intention of moving to EV

I like to drive as many miles as I like on a whim any time and no fear of queueing to fill up for more than a few minutes

Yep I pay 65% of my fuel costs in taxes

If anyone thinks that won't be passed on to an EV eventually is crazy 

thevilla

MikeJXE said:

MeteredOut said:

I have to say that, having recently moved from a 3L diesel to an EV, I'm the opposite to what you've stated - I never really bothered about how many miles I drove in the ICE - if i needed to drive somewhere, I did so.

Now with an EV, I'm the same - I'm not going to drive somewhere just for the hell of it because I've got an EV; on the contrary, I'm probably a bit more aware of usage I've actually got a much lighter accelerator foot now. This may be because its still relatively new to me and I'm working out the range etc, but I can't see how EVs will cause more congestion.

Instead, I suspect this is the typical "slow leak" of the way things will be, to get the idea into peoples head, to normalise the thought that more taxes are on their way; anyone who does not think the fuel duty will be replaced by something else targeting motorist is naiive. I suspect we'll eventually end up in a pay-per-mile model, but that's probably a couple of decades away from a full implementation.

Totally agree with you, I drive an ICE and no intention of moving to EV

I like to drive as many miles as I like on a whim any time and no fear of queueing to fill up for more than a few minutes

Yep I pay 65% of my fuel costs in taxes

If anyone thinks that won't be passed on to an EV eventually is crazy 

Lucky you. No children, grandchildren to worry about. 

MikeJXE

thevilla said:

MikeJXE said:

MeteredOut said:

I have to say that, having recently moved from a 3L diesel to an EV, I'm the opposite to what you've stated - I never really bothered about how many miles I drove in the ICE - if i needed to drive somewhere, I did so.

Now with an EV, I'm the same - I'm not going to drive somewhere just for the hell of it because I've got an EV; on the contrary, I'm probably a bit more aware of usage I've actually got a much lighter accelerator foot now. This may be because its still relatively new to me and I'm working out the range etc, but I can't see how EVs will cause more congestion.

Instead, I suspect this is the typical "slow leak" of the way things will be, to get the idea into peoples head, to normalise the thought that more taxes are on their way; anyone who does not think the fuel duty will be replaced by something else targeting motorist is naiive. I suspect we'll eventually end up in a pay-per-mile model, but that's probably a couple of decades away from a full implementation.

Totally agree with you, I drive an ICE and no intention of moving to EV

I like to drive as many miles as I like on a whim any time and no fear of queueing to fill up for more than a few minutes

Yep I pay 65% of my fuel costs in taxes

If anyone thinks that won't be passed on to an EV eventually is crazy 

Lucky you. No children, grandchildren to worry about. 

Yes I do consider myself lucky although I am  a pensioner living on SP 

I do have 2 kids and 4 grandchildren who i feel for whats coming to them

I don't worry about them, what would be the point I can't do anything about it. 

LightFlare

MikeJXE said:

If anyone thinks that won't be passed on to an EV eventually is crazy 

100% agree

Currently, ignoring all other factors, the maths just doesn't add up for me on EVs

I "may" however consider one when I replace my current vehicle - hopefully by then, the infrastructure is better,range is improved and initial cost is comparable

MeteredOut

LightFlare said:

MikeJXE said:

If anyone thinks that won't be passed on to an EV eventually is crazy 

100% agree

Currently, ignoring all other factors, the maths just doesn't add up for me on EVs

I "may" however consider one when I replace my current vehicle - hopefully by then, the infrastructure is better,range is improved and initial cost is comparable

That's the thing - for me, where I was needing a new car (replaced a 11 year old diesel) getting an EV will (on early calculations) save us £2-3K each year on reduced running costs and the access it has given us to cheaper electricity. A pre-reg'd car with 100 miles on the clock saved me significantly against the new list price and on par with an equivalently spec'd ICE car.

And don't underestimate the simple joy of walking out to a defrosted and toasty warm car on a icy winter morning. I'd pay money for that!

Netexporter

Plus, once you've driven an EV you'll probably never want to drive an ICE vehicle ever again. I certainly don't.

JKenH

Netexporter said:

Plus, once you've driven an EV you'll probably never want to drive an ICE vehicle ever again. I certainly don't.

That’s exactly how I felt in 2020 about my Leaf. I sold my Golf and Mercedes as I didn’t want to drive anything but an EV anymore. It’s now over a year since I gave up the Leaf and went back to a manual 1.0 Golf and actually am enjoying driving it. (I don’t do much mileage in towns and fortunately haven’t had many stop start journeys where I would miss the Leaf.) I think part of the reason we enjoy driving EVs so much is that they are different. After 50 years of driving ICE cars, EVs were a refreshing change but is it any different to falling for a younger woman after 50 years of marriage. It is easy to be blinded by the attraction of the new and make allowances (excuses) for the bits that aren’t  quite so good. Sometimes you realise what you’ve known and got used to for 50 years is not such a bad option.

I still fancy an EV for local shopping trips but every time I go on a long run I breathe a sigh of relief that I no longer have to do it in an EV. 

EricMears

MikeJXE said:

I don't worry about them, what would be the point I can't do anything about it. 

If the whole world thinks "I can't do anything about it"  then absolutely no 'improvement' could ever happen.  But if everyone decided to try and make some effort towards improving things then something might result.