EV Discussion thread

silvercar

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

michaels said:

JKenH said:

Grumpy_chap said:

MeteredOut said:

Surely you can get quotes with wha you know your NCB will be? Or, do you not know? It should be last years renewal quote + 1 year

Magnitio said:

It should be included as part of the documentation provided with the renewal quote.

Thanks but, obviously, I don't know what the NCB is.
I don't know what it was last year so can't simply +1
It is not stated in the renewal documents.

I have asked the current insurer to confirm.  I have asked several times.  They are making me grumpy


Also making me grumpy is the TM3 did a software update over the weekend and it is very temperamental for it.
There is a new feature to activate auto-steer at the same time as cruise control.  I disabled that as it can often be useful to have cruise control but not autosteer.

The lane-keeping assistant has become very aggressive, so much so that I was over-riding it so much in the first two miles it self-disabled for the remainder of the journey.  Maybe it is a calibration process after the update?
I also found the autosteer when used was requiring far more "wobbles" of the steering wheel.  Maybe another post-update calibration.

One very annoying thing - I don't know whether it is the update - but the car slowed be down (to 65 and then to 60) for periods on the motorway with the message "Speed Restricted - poor road conditions".  I hope this can be disabled.

My update does not appear to have included the "dogging" game - perhaps that only activates in Lincolnshire.  I won't be going near there anytime to find out.

I think this will be a lot more common in the future (on all cars, not just EVs) with both the car “nannying” us and outside agencies intervening, such as the HA on motorways being able to control our speed “to improve traffic flow” or limit speed in fog or even bring our cars to a halt. Potentially cars in the not too distant future may be speed limited everywhere. Google maps already knows the speed limits on sections of roads so couple that with the tech already in a Tesla and it really can’t be that far away.

While some may approve of such intervention, the fact that it is first appearing widely in EVs means inevitably that EVs will be regarded as the thin end of the wedge for those who want to keep control of our cars.

Many if not all EVs are capable of over the air “upgrades” so I can imagine these safety improvements will be coming thick and fast whether we want them or not. If we refuse the latest update will our cars be disabled or our insurance rendered invalid?

How long before cars are hacked and taken over by rogue actors and you find yourself hurtling down the road out of control? Is that really so far fetched?

You do know all new cars in the EU for the last year or two have speed limit assist - basically automatic speed limiter linked to the speed limit of the road - don't know if there is generally an over ride or how it is activated if there is.

Thanks, I wasn’t aware so have had a look into it. It seems the driver can override for now. I see all sorts of potential problems with this sort of computer controlled behaviour.


You can be stuck behind a vehicle going very slowly on twisty bits of road that then on a straighter bit of road accelerates up to a few mph below the speed limit meaning you would be stuck behind it indefinitely as you could only pass it effectively at walking pace. Overtaking long slow moving vehicles (like a tractor towing a trailer) becomes problematic because the manoeuvre takes so much longer that there is more opportunity for another car to appear coming from the opposite direction. Without the ability to accelerate out of trouble and complete the manoeuvre the potential exists to create more accidents. 

I am not against speed limits per se but removing the ability to exceed them on occasion can be just as dangerous. 

No tech is foolproof and the way speed assist systems work can easily lead to situations where the incorrect speed limit is set. GPS maps may be out of date, road signs obscured, on board camera lenses obscured etc. Many Tesla owners frequently find autopilot is disabled in certain visibility related situations so will intelligent speed assist (ISA) systems work any better? The more we get used to relying on them the less responsibility we take as drivers and the more potential for accidents.

While I might use adaptive cruise (ACC) on motorways, there are situations when I turn it off because I feel I can do a better job manually of adjusting my speed up or down for smoother driving. A typical case in point is when sitting in the middle lane overtaking a line of lorries on a hill with ACC set at 70 and a slower vehicle in front travelling at say 60. The vehicle in front having passed the lorries moves to the near side lane. Your car on ACC accelerates back up to the speed limit just as the car, now on the inside lane realises he should have stayed in the middle lane and pulls back out again. Braking ensues. A driver can anticipate these situations but a computer doesn’t and your car is accelerating towards a potential crash.


ISA is generally a good thing, as is ACC used correctly but in certain situations can be more hindrance than help, particularly where the flexibility to override is removed. 

What I would ask, though, is if cars are going to have ISA built in then what is the point of having more than say 150bhp or 300Nm of torque in any car? It doesn’t serve any purpose than in a traffic light Grand Prix. My neighbours son managed to stuff his Aston Martin into a hedge within 100 yards of setting off because the car had far more power and torque than he could handle. If you are going to have ISA then also limit all cars to, say, 80mph top speed and 0-60 in 10 seconds. 

I believe that you will be able to override the electronic speed limiter by mashing the accelerator pedal. That of course would lead to some pretty insane overtaking speeds in many EVs.

I often do that (Tesla M3) if I particularly want to overtake something on the inside and or to get ahead of cars joining on a slip road. I can then move my foot off the accelerator and the car slows back down to the set speed.

Martyn1981

michaels said:

Always use the speed limiter when I get in a 20 zone as it s just so easy to go over - but I do set at about 23 based on the speedo over-read and sneaking an extra 1mph...

Speaking of speedo over-read our mark 1 leaf shows 70mph when the actual speed (on the phone) is about 63 and similar at other speeds so a built in speed limiter would mean driving every where at 10% below the actual limit.

We saw almost exactly the same with our Leaf, and the IONIQ appears to over-read by about the same. I now have to be careful at speed cameras as I used to add about 10%, but the Tesla(s) are much closer to reality.

Finding in the many Welsh 20mph zones, that the flow of traffic is around 22-23mph (real), I tend to set the Tesla to 22mph.

michaels

The leaf 40 is much more realistic - perhaps 1-2% over so we need to adjust depending which one we are driving...

silvercar

The problem I find is that it is difficult to identify the 20mph zones as they change to 30 so frequently and a lot of signs have been graffitied so the Tesla isn’t picking them up.

Netexporter

silvercar said:

The problem I find is that it is difficult to identify the 20mph zones as they change to 30 so frequently and a lot of signs have been graffitied so the Tesla isn’t picking them up.

My MG5 can't read the small overlaid 20mph signs and sees through the larger, former 30mph signs, with a 20mph overlay, to interpret it as 60mph.

I'm hoping that a bit of exposure to UV light will modify the opacity/reflectivity of the overlays, in time. Unfortunately there hasn't been any sunshine, to speak of, since September, so it's going to be a long wait.

1961Nick

JKenH said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

michaels said:

JKenH said:

Grumpy_chap said:

MeteredOut said:

Surely you can get quotes with wha you know your NCB will be? Or, do you not know? It should be last years renewal quote + 1 year

Magnitio said:

It should be included as part of the documentation provided with the renewal quote.

Thanks but, obviously, I don't know what the NCB is.
I don't know what it was last year so can't simply +1
It is not stated in the renewal documents.

I have asked the current insurer to confirm.  I have asked several times.  They are making me grumpy


Also making me grumpy is the TM3 did a software update over the weekend and it is very temperamental for it.
There is a new feature to activate auto-steer at the same time as cruise control.  I disabled that as it can often be useful to have cruise control but not autosteer.

The lane-keeping assistant has become very aggressive, so much so that I was over-riding it so much in the first two miles it self-disabled for the remainder of the journey.  Maybe it is a calibration process after the update?
I also found the autosteer when used was requiring far more "wobbles" of the steering wheel.  Maybe another post-update calibration.

One very annoying thing - I don't know whether it is the update - but the car slowed be down (to 65 and then to 60) for periods on the motorway with the message "Speed Restricted - poor road conditions".  I hope this can be disabled.

My update does not appear to have included the "dogging" game - perhaps that only activates in Lincolnshire.  I won't be going near there anytime to find out.

I think this will be a lot more common in the future (on all cars, not just EVs) with both the car “nannying” us and outside agencies intervening, such as the HA on motorways being able to control our speed “to improve traffic flow” or limit speed in fog or even bring our cars to a halt. Potentially cars in the not too distant future may be speed limited everywhere. Google maps already knows the speed limits on sections of roads so couple that with the tech already in a Tesla and it really can’t be that far away.

While some may approve of such intervention, the fact that it is first appearing widely in EVs means inevitably that EVs will be regarded as the thin end of the wedge for those who want to keep control of our cars.

Many if not all EVs are capable of over the air “upgrades” so I can imagine these safety improvements will be coming thick and fast whether we want them or not. If we refuse the latest update will our cars be disabled or our insurance rendered invalid?

How long before cars are hacked and taken over by rogue actors and you find yourself hurtling down the road out of control? Is that really so far fetched?

You do know all new cars in the EU for the last year or two have speed limit assist - basically automatic speed limiter linked to the speed limit of the road - don't know if there is generally an over ride or how it is activated if there is.

Thanks, I wasn’t aware so have had a look into it. It seems the driver can override for now. I see all sorts of potential problems with this sort of computer controlled behaviour.


You can be stuck behind a vehicle going very slowly on twisty bits of road that then on a straighter bit of road accelerates up to a few mph below the speed limit meaning you would be stuck behind it indefinitely as you could only pass it effectively at walking pace. Overtaking long slow moving vehicles (like a tractor towing a trailer) becomes problematic because the manoeuvre takes so much longer that there is more opportunity for another car to appear coming from the opposite direction. Without the ability to accelerate out of trouble and complete the manoeuvre the potential exists to create more accidents. 

I am not against speed limits per se but removing the ability to exceed them on occasion can be just as dangerous. 

No tech is foolproof and the way speed assist systems work can easily lead to situations where the incorrect speed limit is set. GPS maps may be out of date, road signs obscured, on board camera lenses obscured etc. Many Tesla owners frequently find autopilot is disabled in certain visibility related situations so will intelligent speed assist (ISA) systems work any better? The more we get used to relying on them the less responsibility we take as drivers and the more potential for accidents.

While I might use adaptive cruise (ACC) on motorways, there are situations when I turn it off because I feel I can do a better job manually of adjusting my speed up or down for smoother driving. A typical case in point is when sitting in the middle lane overtaking a line of lorries on a hill with ACC set at 70 and a slower vehicle in front travelling at say 60. The vehicle in front having passed the lorries moves to the near side lane. Your car on ACC accelerates back up to the speed limit just as the car, now on the inside lane realises he should have stayed in the middle lane and pulls back out again. Braking ensues. A driver can anticipate these situations but a computer doesn’t and your car is accelerating towards a potential crash.


ISA is generally a good thing, as is ACC used correctly but in certain situations can be more hindrance than help, particularly where the flexibility to override is removed. 

What I would ask, though, is if cars are going to have ISA built in then what is the point of having more than say 150bhp or 300Nm of torque in any car? It doesn’t serve any purpose than in a traffic light Grand Prix. My neighbours son managed to stuff his Aston Martin into a hedge within 100 yards of setting off because the car had far more power and torque than he could handle. If you are going to have ISA then also limit all cars to, say, 80mph top speed and 0-60 in 10 seconds. 

I believe that you will be able to override the electronic speed limiter by mashing the accelerator pedal. That of course would lead to some pretty insane overtaking speeds in many EVs.

I hate to imagine the consequences in an M3P on a wet Lincolnshire road like Bank End. I’m sure it would be fun to try setting the speed limiter to 50 and seeing just what happens if you plant it. Is it possible to disable ESP and TC on a Tesla? With ICE cars like the MX5 there’s always a bit of residual stability control with them switched off unless you pull the fuses. 

It is possible to switch all the nannies off & also to vary the power between the front & back wheels depending on your understeer/oversteer preference.

The best setting is the standard Tesla 'Sport' mode as it barely ever breaks traction or ever deploys anything other than all 525bhp. How it manages that is a mystery to me as all the ICE cars I've had with over 300bhp & awd have struggled in slippery conditions - all running on Michelin PS4S tyres so it's definitely the car. 

Grumpy_chap

Grumpy_chap said:

MeteredOut said:

Surely you can get quotes with wha you know your NCB will be? Or, do you not know? It should be last years renewal quote + 1 year

Magnitio said:

It should be included as part of the documentation provided with the renewal quote.

Thanks but, obviously, I don't know what the NCB is.
I don't know what it was last year so can't simply +1
It is not stated in the renewal documents.

I have asked the current insurer to confirm.  I have asked several times.  They are making me grumpy

Good news - my current insurer eventually confirmed my NCB.

I want to confirm that I am answering the questions correctly while shopping around and the Tesla Manual does not specifically give the information.

1. Is it a Factory Fitted Thatcham Approved Alarm and Immobiliser?
2. Is a Tracker device fitted?  Does the app being able to say where the car is count, or does that mean a specific Tracker device?

It is annoying that the online comparison sites do not detect my car from the registration plate.  You would think after 6 months that would have populated.

EDIT: I have sent an e-mail to Tesla to ask them to confirm the alarm accreditation.

Grumpy_chap

Tesla have sent information on the alarm accreditation - they quote a standard which I cannot guarantee is the same as "Thatcham approved".

I think I will ask in the Insurance Board as, hopefully, there will be someone there that can confirm either way.

thevilla

If in doubt I just say no.  Might increase premium by a couple of quid but better than a denied claim.

Grumpy_chap

Fortunately, DGG gave a full and complete answer, with evidence, to my query in the insurance board
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80481594#Comment_80481594