EV Discussion thread

JKenH

silverwhistle said:

JKenH said:

Something different (or maybe not) to pass your time while charging your EV in Lincolnshire 

Electric car charging station refused planning permission as locals fear it would become a hotspot for crime, sex work and doggers

Hmm, doesn't reflect very well on Lincolnshire residents! ;-)

I’m all for more EV sites. I can only imagine some people are just jealous that EV users are getting their own exclusive sites that ICE drivers can’t use. Still there are plenty of alternatives if you don’t need to plug in. 

https://www.doggingaction.co.uk/dogging-news/lincolnshire-locations/

Unfortunately I don’t have a dog so tend to stay in at nights and miss out on all the companionable activity that dog lovers apparently enjoy. 😉 

JKenH

A couple of setbacks for EV sales in the EU. Germany has run out of money and ditched cash subsidies while France has independently decided to exclude Chinese made EVs from its subsidy programme.

Abrupt end to German electric car subsidies fuels doubts about green mobility target

The German government has abruptly ended its electric car subsidy programme in the wake of last week’s agreement on savings to overcome the budget crisis. The economy and climate ministry (BMWK) said in a press release on Saturday (16 December) that applications for the subsidy of up to 4,500 euros for the purchase of a battery-electric car are no longer possible. Payments already approved will be honoured, and existing applications “will be processed in the order in which they are received and - provided the eligibility requirements are met – approved.”

The government plans to have at least 15 million electric cars on German roads by 2030, but the subsidy cut fuelled fears that this target is out of reach. "The electric car is coming to a standstill," industry expert Ferdinand Dudenhöffer told Focus Online. Dudenhöffer forecast that scrapping the subsidy scheme will lead to a 200,000 reduction in new electric car registrations next year. 

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/abrupt-end-german-electric-car-subsidies-fuels-doubts-about-green-mobility-target

France says ‘non’ to EVs made in China

Today, France has revealed its list of electric vehicles now eligible for federal tax incentives of up to €7,000. As expected, EVs made in China – including Tesla’s Model 3 and the Dacia Spring, the cheapest EV on the market – didn’t make the cut.

https://electrek.co/2023/12/14/france-says-non-to-evs-made-in-china/

Grumpy_chap

MeteredOut said:

Surely you can get quotes with wha you know your NCB will be? Or, do you not know? It should be last years renewal quote + 1 year

Magnitio said:

It should be included as part of the documentation provided with the renewal quote.

Thanks but, obviously, I don't know what the NCB is.
I don't know what it was last year so can't simply +1
It is not stated in the renewal documents.

I have asked the current insurer to confirm.  I have asked several times.  They are making me grumpy


Also making me grumpy is the TM3 did a software update over the weekend and it is very temperamental for it.
There is a new feature to activate auto-steer at the same time as cruise control.  I disabled that as it can often be useful to have cruise control but not autosteer.

The lane-keeping assistant has become very aggressive, so much so that I was over-riding it so much in the first two miles it self-disabled for the remainder of the journey.  Maybe it is a calibration process after the update?
I also found the autosteer when used was requiring far more "wobbles" of the steering wheel.  Maybe another post-update calibration.

One very annoying thing - I don't know whether it is the update - but the car slowed be down (to 65 and then to 60) for periods on the motorway with the message "Speed Restricted - poor road conditions".  I hope this can be disabled.

My update does not appear to have included the "dogging" game - perhaps that only activates in Lincolnshire.  I won't be going near there anytime to find out.

MikeJXE

OH no!!  not problems with your EV, I can't believe it so soon  

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

MeteredOut said:

Surely you can get quotes with wha you know your NCB will be? Or, do you not know? It should be last years renewal quote + 1 year

Magnitio said:

It should be included as part of the documentation provided with the renewal quote.

Thanks but, obviously, I don't know what the NCB is.
I don't know what it was last year so can't simply +1
It is not stated in the renewal documents.

I have asked the current insurer to confirm.  I have asked several times.  They are making me grumpy


Also making me grumpy is the TM3 did a software update over the weekend and it is very temperamental for it.
There is a new feature to activate auto-steer at the same time as cruise control.  I disabled that as it can often be useful to have cruise control but not autosteer.

The lane-keeping assistant has become very aggressive, so much so that I was over-riding it so much in the first two miles it self-disabled for the remainder of the journey.  Maybe it is a calibration process after the update?
I also found the autosteer when used was requiring far more "wobbles" of the steering wheel.  Maybe another post-update calibration.

One very annoying thing - I don't know whether it is the update - but the car slowed be down (to 65 and then to 60) for periods on the motorway with the message "Speed Restricted - poor road conditions".  I hope this can be disabled.

My update does not appear to have included the "dogging" game - perhaps that only activates in Lincolnshire.  I won't be going near there anytime to find out.

I think this will be a lot more common in the future (on all cars, not just EVs) with both the car “nannying” us and outside agencies intervening, such as the HA on motorways being able to control our speed “to improve traffic flow” or limit speed in fog or even bring our cars to a halt. Potentially cars in the not too distant future may be speed limited everywhere. Google maps already knows the speed limits on sections of roads so couple that with the tech already in a Tesla and it really can’t be that far away.

While some may approve of such intervention, the fact that it is first appearing widely in EVs means inevitably that EVs will be regarded as the thin end of the wedge for those who want to keep control of our cars.

Many if not all EVs are capable of over the air “upgrades” so I can imagine these safety improvements will be coming thick and fast whether we want them or not. If we refuse the latest update will our cars be disabled or our insurance rendered invalid?

How long before cars are hacked and taken over by rogue actors and you find yourself hurtling down the road out of control? Is that really so far fetched?

MeteredOut

JKenH said:

How long before cars are hacked and taken over by rogue actors and you find yourself hurtling down the road out of control? Is that really so far fetched?

You've just defined the plot for the next movie in the franchise: Speed 3: Losing Control

We've not quite there yet with OTA updates. VW, for example, need service centre visits for all but minor software updates. And, in the US, if they fail half-way through, it can brick the data-module, thereafter needing a phyiscal part replacement.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VWiD4Owners/comments/17rhgky/software_update_and_door_recall_dealer_turned_my/

JKenH

I took my Merc in for a routine service (including software update) and when I got it back the manual mode for the gearbox had disappeared. It took me a while to convince the Mercedes dealer it had a manual mode in the first place and then a fortnight for them to reinstate it. Fortunately they loaned me a car for the duration. It’s that mentality that it can’t possibly be the software at fault so the driver must be. I believe the same mentality (taken to the extreme) exists in Tesla about unintended acceleration and autopilot caused accidents. Elon Musk would rather bankrupt the company with spending on legal fees than admit the tech could be the problem. 

1961Nick

JKenH said:

I took my Merc in for a routine service (including software update) and when I got it back the manual mode for the gearbox had disappeared. It took me a while to convince the Mercedes dealer it had a manual mode in the first place and then a fortnight for them to reinstate it. Fortunately they loaned me a car for the duration. It’s that mentality that it can’t possibly be the software at fault so the driver must be. I believe the same mentality (taken to the extreme) exists in Tesla about unintended acceleration and autopilot caused accidents. Elon Musk would rather bankrupt the company with spending on legal fees than admit the tech could be the problem. 

Using software & technology to perform tasks that were previously carried out by the driver is certainly having consequences. Telsa have a growing problem with drivers that can't instinctively use the brakes simply because one pedal driving has made the brake pedal redundant 99.99% of the time. The Chinese authorities have insisted on software changes because too many accidents are being caused by Tesla drivers pushing the accelerator rather than the brake pedal in an emergency. If you'd never driven any vehicle other than a Tesla, then I can understand how this could happen. This problem is made worse by the fact that a sudden stab of the accelerator overrides all the anti collision nannies & a Tesla can reach the scene of an accident very quickly on full throttle.

michaels

JKenH said:

Grumpy_chap said:

MeteredOut said:

Surely you can get quotes with wha you know your NCB will be? Or, do you not know? It should be last years renewal quote + 1 year

Magnitio said:

It should be included as part of the documentation provided with the renewal quote.

Thanks but, obviously, I don't know what the NCB is.
I don't know what it was last year so can't simply +1
It is not stated in the renewal documents.

I have asked the current insurer to confirm.  I have asked several times.  They are making me grumpy


Also making me grumpy is the TM3 did a software update over the weekend and it is very temperamental for it.
There is a new feature to activate auto-steer at the same time as cruise control.  I disabled that as it can often be useful to have cruise control but not autosteer.

The lane-keeping assistant has become very aggressive, so much so that I was over-riding it so much in the first two miles it self-disabled for the remainder of the journey.  Maybe it is a calibration process after the update?
I also found the autosteer when used was requiring far more "wobbles" of the steering wheel.  Maybe another post-update calibration.

One very annoying thing - I don't know whether it is the update - but the car slowed be down (to 65 and then to 60) for periods on the motorway with the message "Speed Restricted - poor road conditions".  I hope this can be disabled.

My update does not appear to have included the "dogging" game - perhaps that only activates in Lincolnshire.  I won't be going near there anytime to find out.

I think this will be a lot more common in the future (on all cars, not just EVs) with both the car “nannying” us and outside agencies intervening, such as the HA on motorways being able to control our speed “to improve traffic flow” or limit speed in fog or even bring our cars to a halt. Potentially cars in the not too distant future may be speed limited everywhere. Google maps already knows the speed limits on sections of roads so couple that with the tech already in a Tesla and it really can’t be that far away.

While some may approve of such intervention, the fact that it is first appearing widely in EVs means inevitably that EVs will be regarded as the thin end of the wedge for those who want to keep control of our cars.

Many if not all EVs are capable of over the air “upgrades” so I can imagine these safety improvements will be coming thick and fast whether we want them or not. If we refuse the latest update will our cars be disabled or our insurance rendered invalid?

How long before cars are hacked and taken over by rogue actors and you find yourself hurtling down the road out of control? Is that really so far fetched?

You do know all new cars in the EU for the last year or two have speed limit assist - basically automatic speed limiter linked to the speed limit of the road - don't know if there is generally an over ride or how it is activated if there is.

JKenH

michaels said:

JKenH said:

Grumpy_chap said:

MeteredOut said:

Surely you can get quotes with wha you know your NCB will be? Or, do you not know? It should be last years renewal quote + 1 year

Magnitio said:

It should be included as part of the documentation provided with the renewal quote.

Thanks but, obviously, I don't know what the NCB is.
I don't know what it was last year so can't simply +1
It is not stated in the renewal documents.

I have asked the current insurer to confirm.  I have asked several times.  They are making me grumpy


Also making me grumpy is the TM3 did a software update over the weekend and it is very temperamental for it.
There is a new feature to activate auto-steer at the same time as cruise control.  I disabled that as it can often be useful to have cruise control but not autosteer.

The lane-keeping assistant has become very aggressive, so much so that I was over-riding it so much in the first two miles it self-disabled for the remainder of the journey.  Maybe it is a calibration process after the update?
I also found the autosteer when used was requiring far more "wobbles" of the steering wheel.  Maybe another post-update calibration.

One very annoying thing - I don't know whether it is the update - but the car slowed be down (to 65 and then to 60) for periods on the motorway with the message "Speed Restricted - poor road conditions".  I hope this can be disabled.

My update does not appear to have included the "dogging" game - perhaps that only activates in Lincolnshire.  I won't be going near there anytime to find out.

I think this will be a lot more common in the future (on all cars, not just EVs) with both the car “nannying” us and outside agencies intervening, such as the HA on motorways being able to control our speed “to improve traffic flow” or limit speed in fog or even bring our cars to a halt. Potentially cars in the not too distant future may be speed limited everywhere. Google maps already knows the speed limits on sections of roads so couple that with the tech already in a Tesla and it really can’t be that far away.

While some may approve of such intervention, the fact that it is first appearing widely in EVs means inevitably that EVs will be regarded as the thin end of the wedge for those who want to keep control of our cars.

Many if not all EVs are capable of over the air “upgrades” so I can imagine these safety improvements will be coming thick and fast whether we want them or not. If we refuse the latest update will our cars be disabled or our insurance rendered invalid?

How long before cars are hacked and taken over by rogue actors and you find yourself hurtling down the road out of control? Is that really so far fetched?

You do know all new cars in the EU for the last year or two have speed limit assist - basically automatic speed limiter linked to the speed limit of the road - don't know if there is generally an over ride or how it is activated if there is.

Thanks, I wasn’t aware so have had a look into it. It seems the driver can override for now. I see all sorts of potential problems with this sort of computer controlled behaviour.


You can be stuck behind a vehicle going very slowly on twisty bits of road that then on a straighter bit of road accelerates up to a few mph below the speed limit meaning you would be stuck behind it indefinitely as you could only pass it effectively at walking pace. Overtaking long slow moving vehicles (like a tractor towing a trailer) becomes problematic because the manoeuvre takes so much longer that there is more opportunity for another car to appear coming from the opposite direction. Without the ability to accelerate out of trouble and complete the manoeuvre the potential exists to create more accidents. 

I am not against speed limits per se but removing the ability to exceed them on occasion can be just as dangerous. 

No tech is foolproof and the way speed assist systems work can easily lead to situations where the incorrect speed limit is set. GPS maps may be out of date, road signs obscured, on board camera lenses obscured etc. Many Tesla owners frequently find autopilot is disabled in certain visibility related situations so will intelligent speed assist (ISA) systems work any better? The more we get used to relying on them the less responsibility we take as drivers and the more potential for accidents.

While I might use adaptive cruise (ACC) on motorways, there are situations when I turn it off because I feel I can do a better job manually of adjusting my speed up or down for smoother driving. A typical case in point is when sitting in the middle lane overtaking a line of lorries on a hill with ACC set at 70 and a slower vehicle in front travelling at say 60. The vehicle in front having passed the lorries moves to the near side lane. Your car on ACC accelerates back up to the speed limit just as the car, now on the inside lane realises he should have stayed in the middle lane and pulls back out again. Braking ensues. A driver can anticipate these situations but a computer doesn’t and your car is accelerating towards a potential crash.


ISA is generally a good thing, as is ACC used correctly but in certain situations can be more hindrance than help, particularly where the flexibility to override is removed. 

What I would ask, though, is if cars are going to have ISA built in then what is the point of having more than say 150bhp or 300Nm of torque in any car? It doesn’t serve any purpose than in a traffic light Grand Prix. My neighbours son managed to stuff his Aston Martin into a hedge within 100 yards of setting off because the car had far more power and torque than he could handle. If you are going to have ISA then also limit all cars to, say, 80mph top speed and 0-60 in 10 seconds.