EV Discussion thread

1961Nick

After paying £1200 to insure a Sierra Cosworth back in early 90's, the Model 3P seems like an absolute bargain at half the price 30 years later.

Martyn1981

1961Nick said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Car Insurance Shocker!!

My car insurance for the Fiesta was under £200 last year.  So was the Focus.  Both are now gone.

The car insurance for the TM3 as a mid-year change was disproportionately high, but I put that down to being a change as much as the car.

I expected the premium to be higher than rock bottom that I had before, but my renewal has come through at £1,900 

I am yet to do the shopping around but totally shocked at this type of premium being tabled 

I've just done a compare the market & mine comes out at £653 with an addition driver, legal cover, courtesy car, personal accident, protected NCD & a £750 excess (of which £400 was compulsory). The insurer was Churchill.

I paid LV £676 back in June.

Churchill for us too, ~£700.

Got priced out of being able to get a R5 Turbo in the late 80's, due to insurance costs of £1,900. Had to get the Trans-Am instead. Then insurance ratings changed, and the TA went from £600 to £3,500 overnight (partly because no-claims became ineligible for no reason). Luckily Dad came to the rescue and we were able to get classic insurance for about £250 (5,000 miles pa) ...... none of it makes much sense, then or now regarding insurance rates and costs.

MeteredOut

Grumpy_chap said:

Car Insurance Shocker!!

My car insurance for the Fiesta was under £200 last year.  So was the Focus.  Both are now gone.

The car insurance for the TM3 as a mid-year change was disproportionately high, but I put that down to being a change as much as the car.

I expected the premium to be higher than rock bottom that I had before, but my renewal has come through at £1,900 

I am yet to do the shopping around but totally shocked at this type of premium being tabled 

People should know by now that your can get wildly varying quotes from different providers at renewal or change of car, as the provider may use a new/different underwriter.

I recently went from a 11 year old 3 litre Diesel to a EV and the premium would have risen by around 30%, so I cancelled, paid the £35 fee and renewed elsewhere at around 5% more than last year - less than the media reported annual inflation for car insurance.  But, such stories don't make good YouTube click-bait.

Grumpy_chap

MeteredOut said:

People should know by now that your can get wildly varying quotes from different providers at renewal or change of car, as the provider may use a new/different underwriter.

I have requested the confirmation of NCB from the current insurer and will then shop around.  At least others are paying far less, though still x3 what I was paying before.

Martyn1981

We actually paid less for the new Tesla Model 3, than our old petrol Zafira. Then when we switched to a Y a few years later, and about 6 months in to the ins policy, we got a small refund, despite a £30 admin fee. Followed by a roughly 100% rise when we renewed this year.

I can not make any real sense out of it. But Nick's reminder about prices from 30(ish) years ago is interesting, dare I say good value now. But I'd rather be paying half.

Did want to get a clear coat PPF wrap for the new car, but insurance company said no, even if we accept that damage repair would exclude any wrap costs. Some insurance companies allow it, but they were much higher premiums.

Not sure the problem today with wraps, but apparently a few years ago it was a red flag for insurers, like body kits, suggesting cars would be driven faster / 'boy racers'. Don't know if that theory still applies as wrapping has gone a bit more mainstream.

Netexporter

Does tinting the rear glass bang your premium up?

JKenH

MeteredOut said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Car Insurance Shocker!!

My car insurance for the Fiesta was under £200 last year.  So was the Focus.  Both are now gone.

The car insurance for the TM3 as a mid-year change was disproportionately high, but I put that down to being a change as much as the car.

I expected the premium to be higher than rock bottom that I had before, but my renewal has come through at £1,900 

I am yet to do the shopping around but totally shocked at this type of premium being tabled 

People should know by now that your can get wildly varying quotes from different providers at renewal or change of car, as the provider may use a new/different underwriter.

I recently went from a 11 year old 3 litre Diesel to a EV and the premium would have risen by around 30%, so I cancelled, paid the £35 fee and renewed elsewhere at around 5% more than last year - less than the media reported annual inflation for car insurance.  But, such stories don't make good YouTube click-bait.

There is a tendency to refer to any negative EV stories as click bait and in reality many are, including from pro EV YouTubers who use negative headlines, because for some reason (Schadenfreude?) they do actually produce more clicks. 

I watched the linked video (yesterday so I apologise if my recollection of the content has been distorted by the passage of time) which seemed to be promoting the idea that ICE car insurance premiums had increased by just as much. If you just rely on anecdotal evidence you can prove whatever you want to prove. I haven’t read all the comments below the video but the majority I did read seem to be very supportive of the  factual veracity of the video. This is the problem with pro EV YouTubers (just as it is with anti EV YouTubers) - tell your target audience what they want to hear and they will believe you - irrespective of the facts. People want to hear and see content that supports their view of the world or how it should be or support their life decisions- facts don’t get a look in. Perhaps publishing the video on here has been helpful in understanding why myths abound in the anti EV community that we find so difficult to comprehend. 

No one as far as I am aware is denying the problem insuring Range Rovers currently so why does an EV YouTuber and a significant section of the EV owning population feel the need to reject the evidence that across the market as a whole insurance premiums for EVs have risen disproportionately? Their premiums (based on driver profile, where they live etc as well as the car) may not have risen significantly but others are suffering a different experience. 

The statistical evidence from Confused.com suggests EV premiums have risen more than those for ICE cars something like 72% compared to 29% hbut that is just at one point in time). John Lewis stopped underwriting EVs completely just as some insurers refuse to touch Range Rovers. There is a reason for this - they are losing money on the business, it is just too risky. 

My experience of insuring a Leaf for 3 years (2019 to 2022) was that EVs cost no more than ICE cars but then perhaps there was little underwriting experience of EVs - the underwriters were still learning and perhaps basing premiums on similar size/cost cars. (I did notice that @Michaels reported very reasonable insurance for his Leaf so maybe Leafs aren’t so badly affected - perhaps more than 10 years of insuring Leafs gives underwriters some comfort that they know the risk and perhaps the type of people who drive Leafs aren’t such bad risks or the parts are cheap and easily available.)


However doing a mystery shopper exercise on a comparison website for a Tesla in October and a few months earlier revealed a substantial increase in the premium quoted (double). That is just my personal experience - it doesn’t count for anything statistically but the sheer mass of drivers finding that their insurance premiums have been hiked substantially by their existing insurers does. Shop around and you will get a cheaper quote but still an increase. The market for EV insurance is becoming increasingly restricted which is not good for premiums. 

 Next year perhaps we may see a reversal of the trend with ICE cars increasing more than EVs as some of the “bad risks” are priced out of the market. Perhaps historically the profile of EV drivers has been one associated with economy rather than boy racers and in more recent years it may have changed. The most common explanation however appears to be increased repair costs/hire car costs associated with difficulty getting spare parts and the fact that there is a lack of knowledge/experience in assessing battery damage. 

I do think though that we need to move on from our rejection of any slightly negative EV story as being click bait or some conspiracy on the part of the fossil fuel industry who are behind the “anti EV press”. It makes us look paranoid. 

Martyn1981

Netexporter said:

Does tinting the rear glass bang your premium up?

I think that may be a 'how long is a piece of string' question. Technically, a legal tint of glass shouldn't affect insurance, but you need to notify it, as a mod, if done aftermarket. But 'modding' a vehicle may be an issue to some insurers.

But legally, I don't think there are any restrictions on rear glass tinting (levels), so that may be a different kettle of fish, and vary by insurer.

1961Nick

Martyn1981 said:

Netexporter said:

Does tinting the rear glass bang your premium up?

I think that may be a 'how long is a piece of string' question. Technically, a legal tint of glass shouldn't affect insurance, but you need to notify it, as a mod, if done aftermarket. But 'modding' a vehicle may be an issue to some insurers.

But legally, I don't think there are any restrictions on rear glass tinting (levels), so that may be a different kettle of fish, and vary by insurer.

Many years ago I listed an aftermarket Thatcham alarm as a modification in the expectation of a discount... you can guess what my insurers tried to do!

JKenH

All you Tesla owners will be pleased to see that Tesla has managed to escape the list of most depreciating EVs. The biggest faller has actually gone down 45%, not 50% as the headline suggests. Prices provided by CAP HPI are for one year old examples at the start of the year compared to one year old now. Somewhere between two thirds and a quarter will no doubt have been owned by fleets. Now there are so many bargains for the private buyer looking for a one year old EV it is no wonder private buyers are avoiding the financial hit of buying new. (Just for reference when I bought my Leaf new in 2020 the price premium was only £4k or so over a two year old example of the same car. Depreciation over the last 3 years and 8 months has worked out about £4K a year for us as a family. That’s about £2k more over the period than buying a new ICE Golf in 2020 would have cost. The savings (fuel and road tax) have been about £3k overall compared to buying and running a new ICE Golf.  Insurance on the Leaf while I owned it was similar to a Golf. I chose to get it serviced at the main dealer as I do with my Golf and didn’t notice any significant difference in cost. 

The 30 used EVs that have plunged most in value in 2023 with some year-old cars worth only half as much

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-12837223/The-30-used-EVs-plunged-value-2023-year-old-cars-worth-half-much.html