EV Discussion thread

JKenH

As new private EV leases slip, used leasing schemes are expanding giving opportunities for cheaper SalSac schemes based on used cars. 

Growing gap between business and private customers, reports BVRLA

Only 17% of private contract hire (PCH) delivers in Q2 2023 were for battery electric vehicles (BEVs), with a further 5% for plug-in hybrids (PHEVs).

This is pushing more private drivers to turn to the used market, either via private sales or through one of the increasingly prevalent used vehicle leasing schemes, says the BVRLA.

There are now more than 20,000 used vehicles being operated within the BVRLA leasing fleet.

From a low base, the sub-sector is growing rapidly, with more salary sacrifice schemes emerging that are offering used electric vehicles to provide drivers an affordable route into zero-emission motoring.

BVRLA director of corporate affairs, Toby Poston, said: “Business customers benefit from fair taxation and incentives that aren’t replicated in the private market.

“This is pushing more private customers towards used electric vehicles, where growth of supply is vastly outpacing that of demand.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/growing-gap-between-business-and-private-customers-reports-bvrla

Netexporter

Video on explanations for the "runaway" MG Zs.

https://youtu.be/pEKLCTD4Miw

Basically confirming what has been said on the MG Owners forum.

Reed_Richards

How many electric car owners actually know about the pull-and-hold the parking brake technique or the press-and-hold the ignition button technique?  

Netexporter

Reed_Richards said:

How many electric car owners actually know about the pull-and-hold the parking brake technique or the press-and-hold the ignition button technique?  

Applies to modern ICE cars, too. Worth watching for that info alone.

1961Nick

The problem is that the WLTP test isn't fit for purpose. 

michaels

1961Nick said:

The problem is that the WLTP test isn't fit for purpose. 

Have to say I tend to only look at EV Database real world and cold highway figures, the latter are most relevant to me as other journeys I will be home and charging long before the battery is exhausted.

Grumpy_chap

There were some comments in the past few days (I can't find them now ) about the accuracy of the on-board power consumption and range displays for EV's apparently showing optimistic remaining range.

I don't dispute that as being the case.

I query whether EV's are being held to a higher standard that ICE's. 
Petrol cars start from a fairly crude level measurement and then calculate remaining tank range, average and instant mpg.  When coasting, my Focus would show 99.9 mpg (three-digit display) and my previous Xsara would show 999.9 mpg (four-digit display)  My TM3 never shows 0.000 as the instant kWh.
My Focus also over-forecast the remaining range until getting down to the last 100 miles or so, when it honed in and even went to a more conservative forecast (no doubt to try to avoid running out and blaming the car).

Are the displays in an EV any better or worse than an ICE?

Perhaps there is a reason why these displays are sometimes referred to as GoM - guessometer 

JKenH

1961Nick said:

The problem is that the WLTP test isn't fit for purpose. 

If you read this CleanTechnica article neither are the EPA tests, particularly as far as Teslas are concerned.

Here’s Why EV Range Estimates (Esp. Tesla’s) Are Wrong Much Of The Time In The USA

Lower speeds result in higher range estimates, so the EPA uses a correction factor, but that itself can vary. In the standard two-cycle test procedure, the correction factor is 0.7. But manufacturers can get the advantage of a lower correction factor — which results in a higher range rating — if they opt for a 5-cycle testing protocol. The result is that there are two different results attained, so there is no uniformity between cars made by different companies.

German manufacturers prefer the two-cycle test because the result is closer to real-world performance. Tesla prefers the 5-cycle test because it produces higher range estimates, which look good on its website. “There’s a balance,” VanderWerp explains. “The marketing team wants to tout a big range number, but to customers you want to be conservative.” When Car and Driver performs range tests on German EVs, the results are mostly in line with the stated range estimates, or a little better.

But when the same testing is done on Tesla models, the results are “on average two times as far off the window label value as most EVs. 400 miles of stated range for a Tesla and 300 miles for a Porsche is pretty much the same number at real highway speeds,” VanderWerp said. Now I am beginning to understand why my Model Y doesn’t go as far on the highway as expected.

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/25/heres-why-ev-range-estimates-esp-teslas-are-wrong-much-of-the-time-in-the-usa/

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

There were some comments in the past few days (I can't find them now ) about the accuracy of the on-board power consumption and range displays for EV's apparently showing optimistic remaining range.

I don't dispute that as being the case.

I query whether EV's are being held to a higher standard that ICE's. 
Petrol cars start from a fairly crude level measurement and then calculate remaining tank range, average and instant mpg.  When coasting, my Focus would show 99.9 mpg (three-digit display) and my previous Xsara would show 999.9 mpg (four-digit display)  My TM3 never shows 0.000 as the instant kWh.
My Focus also over-forecast the remaining range until getting down to the last 100 miles or so, when it honed in and even went to a more conservative forecast (no doubt to try to avoid running out and blaming the car).

Are the displays in an EV any better or worse than an ICE?

Perhaps there is a reason why these displays are sometimes referred to as GoM - guessometer 

The range remaining in an ICE vehicle tends to go both up and down on a journey although the overall trend is obviously downwards. The first car I had with a range estimate was a BMW in 1992. We would play a game with the kids guessing as to whether the next change would be up or down. Of course I could influence the result with my driving as the range prediction was related to recent consumption rather than a measure of the fuel in the tank against a fixed consumption figure. Obviously the lower the fuel level the less likely the range is to increase.

I believe different EVs vary as to whether the range is related to recent consumption or a fixed consumption figure applied to the battery kWh remaining. The only times I have seen the range increase in a Leaf are on a long downhill section of road or in a car that has been driven gently after it has been thrashed. The exception to this was on the very first test drive of a leaf when I was pleasantly surprised to see the range go up with careful driving. (I can only imagine it had been driven hard before I drove it.) The next Leaf I test drove I did so gently and said to the salesman I was trying to increase the range and he said that can’t happen. 

I was under the impression (from forums) that Tesla range decreased in a more linear manner as a function of battery % remaining but unrelated to driving style - but I could be wrong. It could just be an illusion though as if a Tesla starts each journey with an optimistic calculation of range then the range remaining is unlikely to increase (unless you have a long descent which recharges the battery). What I am saying is if after driving for 50 miles on level ground at 75mph on a motorway the car is showing 150 miles remaining you then drive very gently on level ground at, say, 40mph, I wouldn’t expect the range remaining to increase, whereas in most petrol or diesel cars I have driven it would. 

Grumpy_chap

I am not sure whether the range remaining on my TM3 ever increases during a drive.
What I do see is the forecast range remaining at journey's end and that forecast can increase or decrease depending upon driving behaviour.
I guess the crux of my comment was about the previous notes that the GoM on EVs is inaccurate and whether that is any better or worse than the GoM on ICE's.
In terms of range increasing, I suppose it is technically possible to charge a battery while driving but not to add more fuel.