EV Discussion thread

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

silvercar said:

You could use the zapmap app rather than physically drive around yourself. The comments on the app will give you a good idea how reliable the chargers are. You will also want to compare the costs various chargers.

I want to physically drive to demonstrate to Mrs G-C and also understand how many are ICE'd - don't suppose any online tool shows that.

Famous last words, but they shouldn't be ICE'd. They are usually placed away from the main building, if at services, or are dedicated spaces for a Tesla showroom etc.. Also there are idling charges if you leave your car for too long after charging is completed, if the chargers are busy. So that encourages folk to move the car to a normal parking space, if they are staying for a while.

Whilst you are having a test drive, you might want to have a quick play with the Nav. On the main map screen click on the charger icon (lightning bolt I think), and it will show you the SC's. Expand the map as needed. Then click on one, and it will tell you the charge speed in kW's, the number of chargers, and the number available, also the cost. Hopefully that will boost yours and your good lady's confidence, when you see how easy it is.

PS - If you are trying to allay any fears about using chargers, then the SC's are really easy. You will have an account with Tesla, so you pull up and park, whilst you do that, the car and charger will have already carried out an electronic handshake. So you get out, take the charger nozzle, press the button on the nozzle, and as if by magic, your charger port will open. Plug in, walk away.

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

Famous last words, but they shouldn't be ICE'd. They are usually placed away from the main building,

Ahh, yes, that is what my previous casual observation has been.  Tesla chargers en-masse and well away from the buildings.
BUT this is not to understand the Tesla charging infrastructure but whether any alternative vehicle would suit of whether charging is inadequate.
One of the services I stop at most is South Mimms and last time I looked, the two non-Tesla chargers were right at the building entrance and always occupied with something.
The purpose of tomorrow is to assess that impact and variance.  If we could charge a non-Tesla, the options become much wider.

silvercar

Only a small portion of Tesla superchargers are open to other vehicles. 

Grumpy_chap

silvercar said:

Only a small portion of Tesla superchargers are open to other vehicles. 

That may be irrelevant if the provision for other vehicles is adequate.

I'm starting to feel like just using the train

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

silvercar said:

Only a small portion of Tesla superchargers are open to other vehicles. 

That may be irrelevant if the provision for other vehicles is adequate.

I'm starting to feel like just using the train

I’m not going to be popular posting this (and I have thought about it for a couple of hours before posting) but here is a not untypical post on Facebook (EV Drivers Group) which appeared tonight.

“Bit of a moan from me today.

Planned to recharge at Rugby Moto services today (where I’ve never had an issue previously) and upon arrival all chargers were in use.  I was lucky as I was 2nd car in the queue and actually got on a charge point fairly quickly.  However, others weren’t so lucky as at least three chargers had vehicles plugged in and the charge was already complete but no sign of the drivers!  I watched whilst my vehicle was charging and those cars were all there at least 20 minutes before the owners returned.

In my mind that is really ignorant behaviour on their part.”

If you buy a Tesla with 300+ mile range the chances of this happening are slim and for every one person posting a bad experience there are probably 100 others who have never had a problem at all. If you generally have an easy going attitude to life, experiences like this won’t spoil your enjoyment of EVs anyway. BUT if you are like me and generally like to be in control of one’s own destiny then EV charging has the potential to throw up these irritations which may or may not result in genuine inconvenience.

I accept I probably have been unlucky (despite extensive planning) and encountered more than my fair share of irritations with public charging that soured my experience of EV ownership to the extent I decided I was not going to put myself in a position of needing to rely on a public charger again. Outside of public charging I enjoyed every aspect of EV ownership but the charging experience was sufficient to negate all the benefits an EV bestowed.

As it turns out the financial benefits of running an EV have been much reduced in the past 12 months and from that point of view I was lucky to get out when I did but that wasn’t the be all and end all of running an EV. Yes, I miss the serene one pedal driving experience of my Leaf (which, range aside, I still think is one of the best/most sorted  EVs on the market) but every time I get in my car for a long run (as I did at very short notice on Tuesday to collect a grandchild in an emergency) I congratulate myself for the decision to go back to my ICE Golf. There is absolutely no compromise as far as I am concerned which sadly I couldn’t say about the Leaf, or perhaps any EV.

Everyone’s priorities are different. For many people the right EV will tick all the boxes but just not for me. Only you will know whether an EV will be the right car for you. If you are in any doubt then you most probably know the answer. 

Reed_Richards

Where I live, far from London, EV charging points are scattered around but it's rare to find one that is actually occupied.  A car park that I use frequently recently installed chargers and the two spaces now reserved for EV charging are frequently the only vacant spaces in the car park.  

JKenH

Reed_Richards said:

Where I live, far from London, EV charging points are scattered around but it's rare to find one that is actually occupied.  A car park that I use frequently recently installed chargers and the two spaces now reserved for EV charging are frequently the only vacant spaces in the car park.  

Are they actually connected to the grid? At our local Tesco the chargers were in situ for months (yes, months) before they were powered up. 

Edit: 

The problem is, for many organisations, installing chargers is a tick box exercise and no one (other than users) cares whether they are working or not. In the early days of EV ownership, as an enthusiast, I would report non working chargers but eventually couldn’t be bothered as so many had problems. I suspect with wider take up of EVs less drivers (as a percentage) will bother reporting issues and just move on so more and more chargers will be down.

Study finds 40% of supermarket charging points are out of order or have connection issues

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11658043/Two-five-supermarket-electric-car-chargers-not-working.html

silvercar

JKenH said:

Grumpy_chap said:

silvercar said:

Only a small portion of Tesla superchargers are open to other vehicles. 

That may be irrelevant if the provision for other vehicles is adequate.

I'm starting to feel like just using the train

I’m not going to be popular posting this (and I have thought about it for a couple of hours before posting) but here is a not untypical post on Facebook (EV Drivers Group) which appeared tonight.

“Bit of a moan from me today.

Planned to recharge at Rugby Moto services today (where I’ve never had an issue previously) and upon arrival all chargers were in use.  I was lucky as I was 2nd car in the queue and actually got on a charge point fairly quickly.  However, others weren’t so lucky as at least three chargers had vehicles plugged in and the charge was already complete but no sign of the drivers!  I watched whilst my vehicle was charging and those cars were all there at least 20 minutes before the owners returned.

In my mind that is really ignorant behaviour on their part.”

If you buy a Tesla with 300+ mile range the chances of this happening are slim and for every one person posting a bad experience there are probably 100 others who have never had a problem at all. If you generally have an easy going attitude to life, experiences like this won’t spoil your enjoyment of EVs anyway. BUT if you are like me and generally like to be in control of one’s own destiny then EV charging has the potential to throw up these irritations which may or may not result in genuine inconvenience.

I accept I probably have been unlucky (despite extensive planning) and encountered more than my fair share of irritations with public charging that soured my experience of EV ownership to the extent I decided I was not going to put myself in a position of needing to rely on a public charger again. Outside of public charging I enjoyed every aspect of EV ownership but the charging experience was sufficient to negate all the benefits an EV bestowed.

As it turns out the financial benefits of running an EV have been much reduced in the past 12 months and from that point of view I was lucky to get out when I did but that wasn’t the be all and end all of running an EV. Yes, I miss the serene one pedal driving experience of my Leaf (which, range aside, I still think is one of the best/most sorted  EVs on the market) but every time I get in my car for a long run (as I did at very short notice on Tuesday to collect a grandchild in an emergency) I congratulate myself for the decision to go back to my ICE Golf. There is absolutely no compromise as far as I am concerned which sadly I couldn’t say about the Leaf, or perhaps any EV.

Everyone’s priorities are different. For many people the right EV will tick all the boxes but just not for me. Only you will know whether an EV will be the right car for you. If you are in any doubt then you most probably know the answer. 

Rugby moto fast becoming a victim of its own success. Voted the top service station in the country AND the one with the most chargers, of all types, I've ever seen. More brands are going to join the Tesla model of charging idle fees on completion of charge to keep the chargers free and earning. Again Rugby is so well designed that it comes with its own disadvantages - the chargers are on the far side of the car park (to stop ICE cars from blocking them), the chargers are super fast, so it is possible to receive a total charge in less than it takes to visit the toilets and return to your car!

JKenH

Yes, it needs a whole new mindset. 

EV drivers have been told to relax and have a coffee while the car charges but now it is all over before the barista has handed over your flat white. I used to take a flask for charging stops (as otherwise you spend on the coffee what you saved on fuel) and it probably will be the way to go in the future to avoid the penalty charges. 

It could though, in all seriousness, become a bit of an issue if you have a very fast charging car/charger as it means interrupting your coffee break/lunch to move the car. 

Martyn1981

silvercar said:

JKenH said:

Grumpy_chap said:

silvercar said:

Only a small portion of Tesla superchargers are open to other vehicles. 

That may be irrelevant if the provision for other vehicles is adequate.

I'm starting to feel like just using the train

I’m not going to be popular posting this (and I have thought about it for a couple of hours before posting) but here is a not untypical post on Facebook (EV Drivers Group) which appeared tonight.

“Bit of a moan from me today.

Planned to recharge at Rugby Moto services today (where I’ve never had an issue previously) and upon arrival all chargers were in use.  I was lucky as I was 2nd car in the queue and actually got on a charge point fairly quickly.  However, others weren’t so lucky as at least three chargers had vehicles plugged in and the charge was already complete but no sign of the drivers!  I watched whilst my vehicle was charging and those cars were all there at least 20 minutes before the owners returned.

In my mind that is really ignorant behaviour on their part.”

If you buy a Tesla with 300+ mile range the chances of this happening are slim and for every one person posting a bad experience there are probably 100 others who have never had a problem at all. If you generally have an easy going attitude to life, experiences like this won’t spoil your enjoyment of EVs anyway. BUT if you are like me and generally like to be in control of one’s own destiny then EV charging has the potential to throw up these irritations which may or may not result in genuine inconvenience.

I accept I probably have been unlucky (despite extensive planning) and encountered more than my fair share of irritations with public charging that soured my experience of EV ownership to the extent I decided I was not going to put myself in a position of needing to rely on a public charger again. Outside of public charging I enjoyed every aspect of EV ownership but the charging experience was sufficient to negate all the benefits an EV bestowed.

As it turns out the financial benefits of running an EV have been much reduced in the past 12 months and from that point of view I was lucky to get out when I did but that wasn’t the be all and end all of running an EV. Yes, I miss the serene one pedal driving experience of my Leaf (which, range aside, I still think is one of the best/most sorted  EVs on the market) but every time I get in my car for a long run (as I did at very short notice on Tuesday to collect a grandchild in an emergency) I congratulate myself for the decision to go back to my ICE Golf. There is absolutely no compromise as far as I am concerned which sadly I couldn’t say about the Leaf, or perhaps any EV.

Everyone’s priorities are different. For many people the right EV will tick all the boxes but just not for me. Only you will know whether an EV will be the right car for you. If you are in any doubt then you most probably know the answer. 

Rugby moto fast becoming a victim of its own success. Voted the top service station in the country AND the one with the most chargers, of all types, I've ever seen. More brands are going to join the Tesla model of charging idle fees on completion of charge to keep the chargers free and earning. Again Rugby is so well designed that it comes with its own disadvantages - the chargers are on the far side of the car park (to stop ICE cars from blocking them), the chargers are super fast, so it is possible to receive a total charge in less than it takes to visit the toilets and return to your car!

My bold - In my ignorance, I'd simply assumed they had, but I think you're right.

Of course, if you're in a rush, it's better to only put 'a bit' in, and keep the charge low so it charges faster. A neighbour has been really interested in our BEV's ever since we got one, and I took him for a spin. But he was a bit disappointed recently when he got to use the company's pool BEV car (MG ZS, I think), and it took well over an hour to fast charge.

So I asked him, did you charge it to 100% ....... and he said yep! Well there's your problem then, I replied.

All part of the fun and learning curve.

Wifey was recently out with family, and on the return trip she knew she'd be a bit short, so they stopped for a quick break at services. She set the charge limit to 50% (I think she said she was on about 30%) just to get back, and was amazed how quickly she got the 5 min warning for idling*. So moved it to a normal space. Can't remember if the rules have changed, but I think they only apply idling warnings and fees, if 50%+ of the chargers are in use. Good idea/policy I think.

*I pointed out she'd used a V2 station, and a V3 would have charged at ~200kW (roughly from 30% to 50%), so about 5mins.