EV Discussion thread

JKenH

More Tesla price cuts

I have been a bit busy babysitting this week so missed these price cuts in Europe on Thursday. If the cuts come to the UK it should also drop used prices for @Grumpy_chap.

https://twitter.com/Berlinergy/status/1646782194508091393

Edit: 25% price cut on the TM3 in Israel!

At any rate, Tesla dropped Model 3 and Model Y prices by another ~5-10% in Germany. The company had already lowered such prices by an impressive 17% near the beginning of 2023. Most of Europe is seeing similar 5-10% price reductions now, though Tesla's prices went up slightly in Norway. In France, Model 3 buyers now get another €5,000 price cut.

Tesla cut prices on the Model Y and Model 3 in Singapore by as much as 5%. However, the 25% drop in price for the base Model 3 in Israel is perhaps the most compelling.

https://insideevs.com/news/662432/more-tesla-price-cuts-10-percent-europe-abroad/

The above table may not be correct. Tesla’s website shows Model 3s (inventory stock I believe) available from €38,180 in France

1961Nick

JKenH said:

More Tesla price cuts

I have been a bit busy babysitting this week so missed these price cuts in Europe on Thursday. If the cuts come to the UK it should also drop used prices for @Grumpy_chap.

https://twitter.com/Berlinergy/status/1646782194508091393

Despite all these price cuts, the list price of my car is still £60,190 which is £1490 more than I paid for it 22 months ago!

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

I’m not going to be popular posting this (and I have thought about it for a couple of hours before posting) but here is a not untypical post on Facebook (EV Drivers Group) which appeared tonight.

“Bit of a moan from me today.

Planned to recharge at Rugby Moto services today (where I’ve never had an issue previously) and upon arrival all chargers were in use.  I was lucky as I was 2nd car in the queue and actually got on a charge point fairly quickly.  However, others weren’t so lucky as at least three chargers had vehicles plugged in and the charge was already complete but no sign of the drivers!  I watched whilst my vehicle was charging and those cars were all there at least 20 minutes before the owners returned.

In my mind that is really ignorant behaviour on their part.”

If you buy a Tesla with 300+ mile range the chances of this happening are slim 

Reed_Richards said:

Where I live, far from London, EV charging points are scattered around but it's rare to find one that is actually occupied.  A car park that I use frequently recently installed chargers and the two spaces now reserved for EV charging are frequently the only vacant spaces in the car park.  

Thank you for sharing.  The purpose of the thread is to share good and bad.
For my part, I visited two charging destinations today.

Destination 1 - motorway services:

• 16 Tesla chargers of which 5 were in use.  Located remote from facilities
• 4 non-Tesla chargers of which 4 were in use on arrival.  Close to the facilities.  Of interesting note (to me anyway) was that on departure there were still 2 in use, but someone had unhelpfully parked and plugged in their MG5 such that they were taking up two parking spaces...

Destination 2 - retail

• 16 chargers of which 5 were in use and 1 ICE'd

Thank you to @JKenH for sharing the information about used Tesla costs in EU - I do hope you are correct and the price benefits move across to us in a few weeks.

We did our test-drive today for the TM3 and it was alright but did not "wow" as much as the MG5 we drove a few weeks back. 

There were some items we noted as particularly poor:

• How hard can it be to open a glove box?
• When lifting off the accelerator, the car does a virtual emergency brake which is, frankly, unsafe - I am amazed no one hit the back of us.
• No stereo / radio / CD player (?)
• A stack of questions to ask the dealer, versus the MG5 which we came away with a "just do it" attitude (subject to NCAP rating)....

The big strength of the TM3 is the range (battery size) plus the access to charging infrastructure.

It did feel more "luxury" than the MG5.
It has 5-star EURO NCAP compared to the MG zero-stars (which is unforgivable).

Mrs G-C has said that if I am going to prioritise safety above all else, then she'd tolerate one (so long as it is red).

Tesla stock is quite low at the moment (so prices not favourable) with a lot of used options at 4 - 6 week lead time.  Maybe the prices will move favourably, either at the month-end approaches or as the March 2020 (new plate) registrations filter through, are prepared and ready for immediate sale which they seem not to be quite yet.

We've also seen the Ioniq 5, which was not for us.  Then the EV-6 (which has a real premium feel but not many used options available, so rather expensive) and the Niro (which could be the next thing to test drive if we don't decide on Tesla).

It is just that charging network strength that makes anything other than Tesla a hard sell (safety taken as a given, which does not apply to the MG).

Grumpy_chap

1961Nick said:

Despite all these price cuts, the list price of my car is still £60,190 which is £1490 more than I paid for it 22 months ago!

How does that compare to inflation in that 22 months?
2.3% if I worked it out correctly is well below inflation.

1961Nick

Grumpy_chap said:

1961Nick said:

Despite all these price cuts, the list price of my car is still £60,190 which is £1490 more than I paid for it 22 months ago!

How does that compare to inflation in that 22 months?
2.3% if I worked it out correctly is well below inflation.

Just saying that here in the UK we're not seeing the price cuts that other markets have benefitted from... and they have inflation too!

One pedal driving is quickly learned & becomes natural to the point that most journeys are done without ever touching the brake pedal.

Opening the glovebox can be done by voice command... but only if the car has a network connection. The instruction is probably routed through a Tesla server in California... what could be simpler?

No CD player but you do have Spotify. The HiFi is actually very good on the LR & P.

Things that irritate me are:

Rain sensing wipers are woeful.
Door handles need illumination.
Glovebox.
The software to activate the matrix headlights still hasn't been released.
No front foglights on mine.
No powered frunk.
I'd like an instrument cluster or HUD.

Other than the above, it's the best car I've owned.

Grumpy_chap

1961Nick said:

One pedal driving is quickly learned & becomes natural to the point that most journeys are done without ever touching the brake pedal.

Maybe - I found it lethal.
The MG5 simply worked like a conventional car similar to lifting the accelerator and the engine braking just allowing you to control the car speed down gently.

1961Nick said:

Opening the glovebox can be done by voice command... but only if the car has a network connection. The instruction is probably routed through a Tesla server in California... what could be simpler? 

I mentioned the glovebox as just an example of really simple thing that has been made too complex.
When driving, extra complexity means less safety (as it is distracting the driver's attention).  OK- the driver won't be accessing the glovebox while driving but there was a host of other stuff all chucked into the touchscreen that really doesn't need to have been.

1961Nick said:

No powered frunk.

Well, the frunk on the TM3 is the best we have seen yet.
No frunk at all on the MG.
Ioniq 5, Niro and EV6 are all clearly designed as ICEs and converted to EV, so the "frunk" is a cheap plastic box under the bonnet where the engine block would sit, with all the liquids there at the side - not a luggage space you would actually use.

I really feel as though Tesla don't expect prospective customers to have viewed competing EV products, least of all "budget" marques such as MG.
We left today feeling rather dismayed.
We left the test drive for the MG feeling "WOW - Let's just get one "  It was my sense that said to try for best price and I then checked the NCAP rating and found, totally unforgivably, the MG5 has zero NCAP rating so I ruled it out.  (Mrs G-C still likes the MG5, but maybe she just has a good life insurance policy on me )

I'd like to keep under £30k, which is possible with the MG, old-shape e-NIRO, and non-franchise TM3.  Can go above if I really need to, or finance would allow a new TM3/Y, but I am not convinced that would be wise.

Then again, this would do just as well and save a packet (NCAP 4 stars too):
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303034857715

silvercar

"The MG5 simply worked like a conventional car similar to lifting the accelerator and the engine braking just allowing you to control the car speed down gently."

Whereas the Tesla works like a dodgem car, almost true one pedal driving. There is something to be said for muscle memory - I've set the Leaf up to default to e-pedal and I engage in B rather than D to mimic this, though its braking isn't quite as effective as in the Tesla. You do get used to it very quickly.

michaels

Not sure on the epedal on the leaf, you do get used to it pretty quickly but also occasionally forget if you have driven a bit without having to use the braking. It comes on in reverse too which makes no sense so then you turn it off and then don't bother to turn it back on suggesting it is not a definite win. In the leaf it also feels a bit clumsy if you do end up having to use the brake pedal as you are still braking quite hard as you go from the brake back onto the gas.

Also had the emergency assist cut in once unexpectedly on the leaf when I braked a bit late for a roundabout, surprised both drivers and passengers.

Martyn1981

1961Nick said:

One pedal driving is quickly learned & becomes natural to the point that most journeys are done without ever touching the brake pedal.

Yep same here. For the first few days with the TM3 I couldn't decide between low and normal regen, but once I got used to it, there was simply no going back to lower regen.

Also a friend found the power in reverse a bit strong when he was driving it, and tbh I hadn't realised. Again, just adapted and naturally drove with feather light adjustments.

The TMY is the same, all done with toe flexing, and I (rather silly this) feel a bit like I've failed, if I use the brake pedal during a trip.

Also found that going home, only the Tesla's could handle the over 90d left turns into narrow (slow) side roads with regen. The Leaf, and now IONIQ need brake pedal use, even at sub 20mph approach, as slightly downhill, and restricted vision. Also the hill we live on, requires brake pedal for the IONIQ when we head off, but I assume (and the same for the Leaf), that the size of the battery at 28kWh isn't big enough to accept enough regen to retard the car like the Tesla's.

PS - @GC, the glovebox can also be set to require PIN code, so that you can lock stuff away when car is being serviced, borrowed etc etc.. Fort Knox has nothing on a Tesla glovebox! 

Reed_Richards

I had to look-up "frunk".  Surely it should be a "froot"?