EV range

tripled

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Still think that EV's are superior to ICE's? 

Yes, far superior.

We are a two car household and have had two diesels for years. We now have an EV and an ICE. Neither is "superior" in all uses. The EV is our main car, used day to day for commuting, shopping and leisure, and mid-range travel (up to a couple of hundred miles). We have a driveway, so can charge it cheaply, and can top it up at Tesco for free. It is superior for that job, because it does not pump out fumes in urban areas and it saves us a lot on fuel costs. The diesel is used intermittently as a second car, and without a doubt is superior at covering long distances at motorway speeds, particularly at night, and towing (the Zoe isn't even allowed to tow). A Tesla might do it but, like most people, we can't afford that.

It's about using the right tool for the job. EV's won't suit everyone, be it for cost or practicality, ICE vehicles still have their place at the moment. We're happy with our mix of an EV and a diesel, it works for us. However, it's not sustainable to keep pumping out toxic fumes in populated areas, and with climate pressures too, change is needed. Maybe that will be improvements in EVs, but equally could be developments in alternatives such as hydrogen or synthetic fuels.

MouldyOldDough

Martyn1981 said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Martyn1981 said:

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

DrEskimo said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Jenni_D said:

MouldyOldDough said:

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Shell are now charging 85p per kWh for rapid charging
Still think that EV's are superior to ICE's? 

Yes, far superior.

So where is the cost saving now.? 

Don't use the Shell rapid chargers. 🙄

You can be sure that the others will follow... 

You're still missing the point that even those without home charging, they rarely rely on rapid chargers as the sole means of charging the car.

When I ran my EV for over a year with no home charger, I used a slower charger (7kW) at the car park up the road, or the one at my work car park. I did this for times where I could leave the car for a few hours (as a car does for most of life...).

These have gone up from around £0.15-£0.25/kWh to £0.25-£0.35/kWh. They never charge as much as rapid charger units.

So - those without home chargers will be expected to find a lampost ot rely on service / petrol stations / shopping centres etc (paying unknown rates) and leave their valuable cars, plugged in for 6 ((or more) hours... What about those with disabilities (I count myself in this category) who struggle to even walk a few paces, how do they physically pliug in their cables and are they supposed to sit in their cars for the full charging time ?

At least with most petrol filling stations - there is help avallable

Those without access to charging at home will need to charge somewhere, yes. But realistically unless you only go on long drives to nowhere or short stops, you should be able to keep charged up from your destination. 

For example, a 10 mile round trip to a supermarket will need the cat to be plugged in for about 25 mins at 8kw. Not many people can do a weekly shop faster than especially with mobility problems. 

Now, accessibility is definitely an issue, but it shouldn't be harder to plug in an EV than use a liquid pump. But the EV bays aren't as accessible and it's not as easy for a carer to pop down and fill up. There are companies working on automated hook ups which will make life a lot easier.


I still think you're looking for problems that, and the amount of reaching you need to find these tenuous points highlights how far EVs have come.

But ICE drivers all get to 'charge' up at home ..... don't they?  

 Incorrect - only those with a parking space, close to the property can charge 

I had no idea that was possible, so how many households with a parking space can 'charge' their ICE at home then?

No idea - the stats are probably available somewhere 

Martyn1981

MouldyOldDough said:

Martyn1981 said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Martyn1981 said:

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

DrEskimo said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Jenni_D said:

MouldyOldDough said:

ididgetwhereiamtoday said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Shell are now charging 85p per kWh for rapid charging
Still think that EV's are superior to ICE's? 

Yes, far superior.

So where is the cost saving now.? 

Don't use the Shell rapid chargers. 🙄

You can be sure that the others will follow... 

You're still missing the point that even those without home charging, they rarely rely on rapid chargers as the sole means of charging the car.

When I ran my EV for over a year with no home charger, I used a slower charger (7kW) at the car park up the road, or the one at my work car park. I did this for times where I could leave the car for a few hours (as a car does for most of life...).

These have gone up from around £0.15-£0.25/kWh to £0.25-£0.35/kWh. They never charge as much as rapid charger units.

So - those without home chargers will be expected to find a lampost ot rely on service / petrol stations / shopping centres etc (paying unknown rates) and leave their valuable cars, plugged in for 6 ((or more) hours... What about those with disabilities (I count myself in this category) who struggle to even walk a few paces, how do they physically pliug in their cables and are they supposed to sit in their cars for the full charging time ?

At least with most petrol filling stations - there is help avallable

Those without access to charging at home will need to charge somewhere, yes. But realistically unless you only go on long drives to nowhere or short stops, you should be able to keep charged up from your destination. 

For example, a 10 mile round trip to a supermarket will need the cat to be plugged in for about 25 mins at 8kw. Not many people can do a weekly shop faster than especially with mobility problems. 

Now, accessibility is definitely an issue, but it shouldn't be harder to plug in an EV than use a liquid pump. But the EV bays aren't as accessible and it's not as easy for a carer to pop down and fill up. There are companies working on automated hook ups which will make life a lot easier.


I still think you're looking for problems that, and the amount of reaching you need to find these tenuous points highlights how far EVs have come.

But ICE drivers all get to 'charge' up at home ..... don't they?  

 Incorrect - only those with a parking space, close to the property can charge 

I had no idea that was possible, so how many households with a parking space can 'charge' their ICE at home then?

No idea - the stats are probably available somewhere 

Cool. I'd simply assumed it was zero.

Jenni_D

And I've assumed that someone here is misunderstanding what is actually written (in their haste to cast aspersions on all things EV) and seeing what they want to see.  

But the answer isn't quite zero - some people will have Jerry cans.  

Martyn1981

Jenni_D said:

And I've assumed that someone here is misunderstanding what is actually written (in their haste to cast aspersions on all things EV) and seeing what they want to see.  

But the answer isn't quite zero - some people will have Jerry cans.  

Sometimes, it's not worth taking the whataboutery too seriously, time will deal it, so satire can help to keep you sane.

Here's one of my favourites from the "Australien Government":

Honest Government Ad | Electric Vehicles

Herzlos

Jerry cans still require a visit to a petrol station to fill, and you're not allowed to buy enough to come close to filling a car up.

Anyway, about 2/3rds of UK households have access to some off street parking (rather than a driveway; you can still charge a car from a car park) which means only 1/3rd would be forced yo charge elsewhere. 

But as covered literally dozens of times on here already, the longer ranges and faster charging times of an EV mean that's getting less of an issue each generation. An average EV with an average driver will only need to charge once a week, so should be able to combine the fuelling trip with a weekly shop ot commute or whatever.

Grumpy_chap

Herzlos said:

Jerry cans still require a visit to a petrol station to fill, and you're not allowed to buy enough to come close to filling a car up.

Then again, petrol stations require a big jerry can on wheels to fill up.  Could I just park one on the drive and then park the car in the road and stretch the fill pipe across the pavement?  

Anyway - this gave me an idea - an EV Fuel Tanker, but I got beaten to it, apparently:
https://convenienceworldmagazine.com.au/introducing-bps-new-all-electric-fuel-tanker/

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Herzlos said:

Jerry cans still require a visit to a petrol station to fill, and you're not allowed to buy enough to come close to filling a car up.

Then again, petrol stations require a big jerry can on wheels to fill up.  Could I just park one on the drive and then park the car in the road and stretch the fill pipe across the pavement?  

Anyway - this gave me an idea - an EV Fuel Tanker, but I got beaten to it, apparently:
https://convenienceworldmagazine.com.au/introducing-bps-new-all-electric-fuel-tanker/

That made me chuckle. It's funny how business/'the market' comes up with solutions faster than we can imagine them, sometimes. I'm looking forward to the day I see a fuel tanker being pulled by a BEV tractor unit. Tesla and BYD are now entering the truck market, but Volvo have a large range already in operation.

A while back news broke that JCB is venturing into HICE (hydrogen internal combustion engines), on the grounds that refuelling heavy plant BEV's may be difficult on site. Loads of downsides to HICE, such as noise and NOx emissions v's EV's, plus the vastly greater green leccy needed to power HICE (and HFCV's) with green H2. But my ponder was that H2 would need to be transported to work sites, from a small number of locations, whereas leccy should be available close to site (or even on site) for battery pack charging. So could they build deployable battery packs that are rotated for heavy plant charging.

When I started looking I found a company that already makes 'small' (46kWh) batts for work sites, for general power and small BEV plant charging, so it would only be an issue of scaling up. But what blew my mind was the company behind said packs:

THE JCB E-TECH ELECTRIC POWER PACK RANGE

and here are examples of small BEV heavy plant

100% ELECTRIC. ZERO EMISSIONS.

Also, of course, large BEV plant has been operating for years in specialised roles, such as mining, where emissions in enclosed spaces add complexities and health issues.

Martyn1981

Given the recent concerns about 'home' (local?) charging for folk without drives, I thought this vid from Fully Charged yesterday was excellent. And today on a small trip, I was surprised, three times, when looking for a parking space, by street chargers. Each had two spaces marked off for PEV's, I think they were 7kW units. For context, I suppose I pottered up and down about 10 roads with 50(ish) terraced properties each. So a small number of chargers, but possibly proportional (for now), and I wasn't looking out specifically for them.

Can You Live With An EV WITHOUT Your Own Home Charger?

Interesting that the presenter owns a BEV, but doesn't have home charging. I have a London forum friend who got a BEV in 2019, with no dedicated charging - though he did once run a cable across the wide pavement, covered in those plastic grids you can get, so he could charge all night/evening at a negative price. I think he got about 20kWh and was paid ~£1.

MouldyOldDough

EVs are going to be subject to road tax according to the chancellor 
Doesn't make sense converting now does it?