UKPC- No PCN and £170 invoice from ZZPS debt collectors- What to do???

JustAUser

Checked out the Newbies thread but still confused. 

This is a bit of a long one so grab a drink. 

In Nov 2021, I apparently received a PCN from a station car park. The contravention was for staying on the site for excess paid of time. I did not get this PCN therefore I was unaware of this charge. 

At the end of January I received a letter from ZZPS which stated "FINAL WARNING- £170 OUTSTANDING". Obviously I am confused. I received no letter of a parking charge and now suddenly I owe £170? They said I should respond within 14 days however this threshold has passed obviously.  After looking at the advice from internet I know NOT to contact these scammers.

The client on the letter is UKPC but I do not want to contact them immediately without knowing my rights. However the parking industry associated with the station car park is Green Parking Ltd. Therefore, I contacted them a couple of weeks ago and they did not respond until this week after I sent another email. I vaguely explained that I received a parking charge yet no PCN. However according to their databases, I have no record of a PCN under my vehicle registration. I mentioned that UKPC were named and they said I should contact them. I sent an email back asking whether they hold responsibility as landowners of this company. They have not responded. 

I am anxious about this charge as I know it can go to court.

Therefore, I went on the UKPC website to just pay for the invoice. Some more details emerged on the payment page:

There were pictures of my number plate and the times I went in and out. Apparently I was in the car park for ONLY 15 MINUTES. By looking at that information on that say I can recall what happened on that day. I was on the way to work and my car's engine light turned on. I was near the car park so I turned into a space, as I had the idea of hopping on the train to work and leaving my car parked there. However, due to covid regulations I was not allowed to leave the car there all day (this was the message on the app, you can only pay by app in this car park). With the car kaput, I obviously did not immediately drive off. But thankfully, then the engine light turned off after a few minutes of switching off the car (not an isolated case as it has happened a few times since). I did not think much of it as I was late for work and I definitely did not stay there for long so off I went for work. 

And another thing, UKPC are asking me to PAY THE FULL £170.

I went off the payment page and I have not paid for this. 

So now I am stuck. 

I cannot appeal as the time for that has passed. However, I did not even receive a PCN, so how could have I appealed anyway? Either way, knowing the state of UKPC, they would probably have rejected it anyway. 

My questions:

I got a letter from the debt collectors so the next stage is receiving a CCJ? Is that right? Or is there something before? If there is something before, do I have a chance of avoiding a getting a CCJ and just paying the invoice or something?

Now what? Since I did not receive a PCN should I contact UKPC, request for one and then proceed accordingly? Will they allow this? Will I get the chance to appeal? 

I am stuck as I do not have the money for the invoice and I do not have the money for court either. How do they expect me to pay? So I am frustrated and consistently anxious. 

£170 does not sound like a fair payment at all. I am sure I read somewhere that I can legally pay maximum £100. Is that right?

What are the chances they will take me to court?

Thank you for reading this post. Would really, really appreciate the help, I am frightened. 

Trainerman

Just to put your mind at rest on one point. You cannot get a CCJ, nor get bailiffs at your door or anything else like that unless you lose a Court case and then do not pay promptly. To get to that point takes months , so take some time to see where you are. Read the newbies thread.

Have you told anyone who was driving? I hope not because you probably have a PoFA 2012 act defence right there, as they may well not be able to transfer liability to the keeper. I expect some of the real experts will be along soon to advise your next steps, but in the meantime.... research !

go-on-then

Please calm down and have another read of the Newbies thread to give you a step by step guide and a better idea of how this game that you are now unfortunately caught up in works.

You will only get a ccj if you dont pay what a judge tells you to pay.  That's if it gets that far.

D_P_Dance

£170 does not sound like a fair payment 

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount of £70 for debt collection.

This amounts to double recovery and Judges all over the country are dismissing these spurious additions. Indeed some judges have dismissed entire claims because of this. Read this and complain to Trading Standards and your MP,

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V Excel v Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

However, VCS appealed this so it may not apply in all cases, read this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ntksx9g7177ahyg/VCS v Percy v1 Amendments (2).pdf?dl=0Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

Also this,

"Abuse of process – the quantum

13. In addition to the disputed Parking Charge Notice claim amount of £100, the Claimant has added a sum of £60 that is disingenuously described variously as 'debt collection costs', ‘additional charges levied to cover the cost of recovery’, ‘additional administration costs’, ‘debt recovery costs’, ‘initial legal costs’ and ‘recovery costs’. The added £60 constitutes double recovery and the court is invited to find the quantum claimed is false and an abuse of process as was found by District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) in Excel vs Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, a similar case in which £60 had been added to a parking charge, heard in July 2020 (the transcript of which is exhibit XX-04). The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'. Leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued."

Also consider complaining to The SRA about the solicitor, if one is involved They are fully aware of the unlawful nature of most of thse additions yet persist in adding them..

https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/

ParkingMad

Please could you do the following:

1) Check the address on your V5C Logbook as that may explain the missing PCN (possibly went to the wrong address)

2) Do a SAR: see example in NEWBIES thread,

3) Read post/reply #4 of the Newbies thread,

4) If a ZZPS letter threatens 'Certified Enforcement Agents (Bailiffs)' - which is illegal - complain to the BPA citing complaint reference BPA-028118 because a poster from this forum has already opened a complaint about that specific ZZPS letter.  Everyone should be up in arms about ZZPS using those words to mislead the public.

DisruptiveLad

It may also constitute fraud under the 2006 Fraud Act. Get in touch with Action Fraud for advice on that. Also, you say there were photos of your number plate. Just the number plate? Or the whole car? 

mart1g

Good afternoon. I hope it's ok to hop in on this thread (it seems the most relevant to my problem). 
I've received a letter from Gladstones Solicitors telling me that I owe £170 for a private parking ticket issued over 4 years ago in November 2017. Telling me I need to pay within 30 days or they will take me to court and I may get a CCJ against my name. I'm not too sure what my next step should be? Any help appreciated please. 
Once again, apologies if this is discourteous...I am a proper newbie here...

MothballsWallet

@mart1g Can you please start your own thread? We work on a 1 thread, 1 case basis on this forum.

You may also be able to PM a board guide and ask them to split your post off into its own thread for you: if that doesn't work, you can always try emailing the MSE Forum Team with the post address - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78998223/#Comment_78998223.

JustAUser

Trainerman said:

Just to put your mind at rest on one point. You cannot get a CCJ, nor get bailiffs at your door or anything else like that unless you lose a Court case and then do not pay promptly. To get to that point takes months , so take some time to see where you are. Read the newbies thread.

Have you told anyone who was driving? I hope not because you probably have a PoFA 2012 act defence right there, as they may well not be able to transfer liability to the keeper. I expect some of the real experts will be along soon to advise your next steps, but in the meantime.... research !

I have only been in contact with Green Parking and I have not explicitly said that I was driving. Only that I received a debt letter. I have not contacted UKPC or anything. 

Thank you for your post

JustAUser

ParkingMad said:

Please could you do the following:

1) Check the address on your V5C Logbook as that may explain the missing PCN (possibly went to the wrong address)

2) Do a SAR: see example in NEWBIES thread,

3) Read post/reply #4 of the Newbies thread,

4) If a ZZPS letter threatens 'Certified Enforcement Agents (Bailiffs)' - which is illegal - complain to the BPA citing complaint reference BPA-028118 because a poster from this forum has already opened a complaint about that specific ZZPS letter.  Everyone should be up in arms about ZZPS using those words to mislead the public.

The address in the logbook is the same. I reckon the original PCN got lost in the mail or something. Although I’m not sure how to prove this when the time comes. 

Will check out Newbies thread again. 

Will see what I can do about the ZZPS letter. 

Thank you for your reply 

JustAUser

DisruptiveLad said:

It may also constitute fraud under the 2006 Fraud Act. Get in touch with Action Fraud for advice on that. Also, you say there were photos of your number plate. Just the number plate? Or the whole car? 

It feels like a major scam. Not to mention it’s completely unjust- I haven’t had the chance to appeal at all. 

Both- they have pictures of my car going in and out on the camera

Thank you for your post