EVs - are we going to be forced into this before time?

Herzlos

Google tells me that Mercedes have a 6 year battery warranty, so I'm pretty confident in claiming that a failed engine will write off most 6 year old cars too.

We see lots ofstories on here about how something minor fails and takes out the engine leaving them with a replacement bill exceeding the outstanding finance.

What isn't as clear is what the failure rates are like and how either can be restored via an unofficial source. At least you can get reconditioned engines from scrapped cars.

NBLondon

Captainkirk54 said:

Domestic charger can only be used on private property  you cannot trail 230 power leads over public pavements and roads.

I've seen a few trailing leads across pavements - with a rubber protection strip.

Captainkirk54 said:

It is unlikely that 230v charging systems will be allowed on the pavement or roadside and all charging will have to be done on private property parking, private car parks or montitored public car parks.

So what's the system for all the roadside charging posts that we already have in London?   I get that I can't just install a post on the pavement and park next to it but at least three different types exist where I live or work(ed)

NBLondon

Oh and a random thought...

In December I stopped off at Grantham Services on the M1 which has 16 Tesla superchargers and a block of about 5 or 6 of another type.   There were 6 or 7 Teslas parked up (Model 3s mostly) but only 3 of them were actually plugged in.  I'm wondering how many were actually travelling up the M1 and how many might have lived locally but it was their nearest charger.  One chap rolled up, parked in a charger space without plugging in then went over to a nondescript ICE saloon to meet a woman; collected her luggage and they both headed into the Travelodge.  At 1.30 in the afternoon.

I also saw a Volkswagen ID roll up - back into a Tesla space then try and work out how to plug in.  No idea if that is feasible with an adaptor and an account or what.  Anyway he gave up and headed off to the non-Tesla bank of chargers - which was full.  If he was low on charge - how long did he have to sit watching for a space to come free?  Then another however long to charge...

victor2

Herzlos said:

....

What isn't as clear is what the failure rates are like and how either can be restored via an unofficial source. At least you can get reconditioned engines from scrapped cars.

Well maintained ICE powered cars can run forever. Batteries will not, no matter How you maintain them. I will be one of many people who has never bought a brand new car. I would not even consider a second hand EV, in the same way as I would not even consider a used ICE car that only needed a new engine.

Herzlos

Well maintained ICE powered cars will wear out just like anything else with moving parts.

There's no indication that a well maintained EV won't last just as long, or that the battery won't outlive the rest of the car.

ontheroad1970

Grumpy_chap said:

Penelopa.Pitstop said:

I checked some random map of charging points: Zap-map and according to it, there's no charging point in our town. Closest one is 2 miles away and it's another town. Next one is 2.7 miles away, another town, and then 3.3 miles away, again another town. I checked another website and it showed exactly the same. So there are towns within M25 without charging points.

Where do you live that has all these small towns?  A town is bigger than 2 miles.  Two miles is from the church at the end of my road to the next church, it takes a reasonably unfit person 30 minutes to walk between them or a fit person 20 minutes.  "Couch to 5k" would take you well past 2 miles.  Perhaps you live in some really rural and remote part of the country where there are very small hamlets of barely more than a dozen inhabitants or so, though if that is within the M25, you'd need a car fitted with a flux capacitor also.  Either that, or your estimation of distances is rather out.

Two miles in 20 minutes would be a very fit person walking.  That's 6 mph.

henry24

Isn't the thing with EV that they will  be perfect for some people all the time but not for others. I have room for a charger and do a fair amount of short journeys but I also like going away for long weekends and to keep stopping to charge up isn't for me. The other thing is price I own a one year old Mazda cx5 diesel that cost me £22000 the equivalent size electric would be 3 times that and I can't afford it

MacPingu1986

victor2 said:

Herzlos said:

....

What isn't as clear is what the failure rates are like and how either can be restored via an unofficial source. At least you can get reconditioned engines from scrapped cars.

Well maintained ICE powered cars can run forever. Batteries will not, no matter How you maintain them. I will be one of many people who has never bought a brand new car. I would not even consider a second hand EV, in the same way as I would not even consider a used ICE car that only needed a new engine.

Victor - what you actually need to look at is how long people actually keep cars, rather than the maximum length of time an ICE could potentially be kept, because that's not how most people behave in practice, and plenty of ICEs or the wider car can fail as they age anyway! Average age of UK vehicles on roads is around 8 years, with only around 1% older than 20 years (and around half of these are enthusiasts keeping pre-1970s classics)

Modern batteries are retaining c80% of their charge after 200-300 thousand miles. For your typical UK person driving around 8,000 miles a year, they'll never reach the point where degradation becomes a material issue. There's other advantages too like much less moving parts to wear out in the drivetrain etc...

Grumpy_chap

ontheroad1970 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Penelopa.Pitstop said:

I checked some random map of charging points: Zap-map and according to it, there's no charging point in our town. Closest one is 2 miles away and it's another town. Next one is 2.7 miles away, another town, and then 3.3 miles away, again another town. I checked another website and it showed exactly the same. So there are towns within M25 without charging points.

Where do you live that has all these small towns?  A town is bigger than 2 miles.  Two miles is from the church at the end of my road to the next church, it takes a reasonably unfit person 30 minutes to walk between them or a fit person 20 minutes.  "Couch to 5k" would take you well past 2 miles.  Perhaps you live in some really rural and remote part of the country where there are very small hamlets of barely more than a dozen inhabitants or so, though if that is within the M25, you'd need a car fitted with a flux capacitor also.  Either that, or your estimation of distances is rather out.

Two miles in 20 minutes would be a very fit person walking.  That's 6 mph.

Exactly as I said "a fit person 20 minutes"

MacPingu1986 said:

Modern batteries are retaining c80% of their charge after 200-300 thousand miles. For your typical UK person driving around 8,000 miles a year, they'll never reach the point where degradation becomes a material issue. There's other advantages too like much less moving parts to wear out in the drivetrain etc...

Is battery degradation primarily driven by mileage (use) or by age?  Genuine question as I do not know.

Jenni_D

Battery degradation is usually influenced by the number of charge cycles, and how low you let the charge get before recharging. (Like with batteries used in phones, laptops etc., they have better longevity when kept between 20% and 80% charge).

6 mph is not walking ... unless you consider speed walking (in athletics) as walking.