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EVs - are we going to be forced into this before time?
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Petriix said:Penelopa.Pitstop said:Petriix said:Let's dispel a few myths:
- EVs can't do long journeys... Well there is such a thing as a rapid charger (of which there are thousands throughout the UK). It can take a bit of planning but the necessity of a 40 minute stop every 150 miles is not exactly a hardship. And, guess what, you don't have to drain your battery by driving everywhere at 70+.
- People who can't charge at home can't have an EV... Except most people don't drive 200 miles per day, every day. With average mileage of 10k per year, that's less than 30 miles per day so one full charge per week to 10 days. In practice we charge a small amount whenever we can. 40% of my charging is free from supermarkets. People can often charge at work, otherwise it's a case of finding a public charger to use, and there are many to choose from.
- EVs are expensive to charge... Only if you solely rely on rapid chargers or have an extortionate home electricity tariff. Octopus are still accepting people onto their Go tariff for EVs. It's 7.5p off peak now. That's about 2p per mile in an EV.
The fact is that EVs would be impractical for a small proportion of drivers and they are currently financially out of reach for many. As longer range EVs hit the market (range seems to be doubling every 3-4 years), there will be more options for everyone and far less need to really think about charging.
2. Most people don't, but there are people driving longer distances than school, shop, work around corner.
3. What about others without driveways and charging points at work?
BTW, there are no public charging points in my area. I haven't seen any on the street or supermarket car park. And it's town within M25.
Remember that most places you go will have electricity and more locations are adding EV charging all the time, so you plan to stop for food somewhere you can charge, you book accommodation with charging (or run the 3 pin charger out the window). You adapt around the possible charging options rather than complaining that you can't do everything exactly as you would if you were driving a petrol car. The great thing is that you don't have to stand around waiting for the car to charge, you can go off and do something else.
You're implying that longer distances than the school run are somehow problematic. That's nonsense. I'm consistently getting about 170 miles of range in winter and well over 200 in summer. That's a hell of a lot of school runs, shopping trips and other local journeys, but it's also enough for a 20 mile daily commute off a single charge per week or 3 days of 25 miles each way. If you're commuting further then the fuel savings would be enormous. 100 miles per day? That's £15 in petrol or £1.50 in electricity.
I wouldn't currently advise people to switch to EV if they don't have a reasonable low-cost charging option at or near home or work; but it's worth running the numbers depending on your situation before dismissing it out of hand. Generous BIK rates and strong residuals can make the overall monthly costs of 'owning' an EV lower than that of a lower spec fossil fuel car.
I strongly suspect that you're mistaken if you think that there are any towns within the M25 without chargers, just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist. Share the first part of your postcode and I'll show you a map with dozens of chargers nearby.
Last year, I was staying in hostel in Wales which was off the the grid, they only had solar panels. There was couple in Leaf and they had to drive to the closest town (which wasn't really close) and spend there most of the day to charge their car. They said, that EV is not good yet and they don't recommend it, until cars will have longer range.
Regarding comment from another poster, I actually have folding solar panels and power station, but power station would not be strong enough to charge a car. It has limit of 1000W.
I don't want to change my lifestyle and adapt it to EV, because it works well with my ICE cars now. Why would I make my life more difficult?
I checked some random map of charging points: Zap-map and according to it, there's no charging point in our town. Closest one is 2 miles away and it's another town. Next one is 2.7 miles away, another town, and then 3.3 miles away, again another town. I checked another website and it showed exactly the same. So there are towns within M25 without charging points.
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A Prius plug in will be my next car. I can plug it in over night and that will give me enough juice to drive on electric only 90% of the time.When on longer journeys it will go into normal hybrid mode and will do between 50 and 80 mpg.No range anxiety as potentially can do over 600 miles on a full tank of juice and petrol.0
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Look at the question again - "are people going to be forced to convert to ICE before time"? If the tax position (both direct through VED and indirectly through local congestion/parking charges) becomes punitive before the fabulous charging infrastructure arrives then there are significant numbers of people who will be between the rock (of needing a car) and the hard place (of both options being more than they can comfortably afford).
I'm glad to see that my local council (London Borough of Lewisham) is slowly introducing on-street charging. Right now - they don't seem to be heavily used since all the local early adopters have driveways anyway. If I went electric; it would require a bit of planning and the savings would probably not pay back the cost to change for some years. But if the council continues down it's track of discouraging cars (especially ICE cars) that calculation changes.
I'm employed with no mortgage - I can do that calculation. There are blocks of social housing in the same neighbourhood. . No sign of the housing association installing chargers. Not all of them have parking spaces anyway and some have more than one car per household. Can they all afford a second-hand Leaf/Zoe? Will all 30 of them be fighting for 4 public chargers?
I need to think of something new here...1 -
If you are minded to purchase an ICE car, keep in mind that there is no deadline for ICE vans or lorries, which are diesel powered. Diesel should be OK re fuel availability, petrol perhaps not so much? Taxation may be an issue of course.
"For every complicated problem, there is always a simple, wrong answer"0 -
Bachelorplace said:I notice the increase in VED across ICE cars, I wonder how far they might be willing to go to tax ICE cars off the road completely and how society might react to that?0
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henry24 said:could you show me where it says it's illegal to drive more than 150 miles without taking a break as that could be as little as 90 minutes1
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You are right Grumpy_chap that's what happens on a phone at work that should be 130 minutes0
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henry24 said:Petriix could you show me where it says it's illegal to drive more than 150 miles without taking a break as that could be as little as 90 minutes but a truck driver can drive for 270 minutes without stopping and how would the police be able to prove how long you'd been driving for
Drivers with a tacho need to stop every 4 (?) hours too.
Realistically, stopping every 150 miles isn't going to cause any real problems for non-professional drivers. The money saved in fuel will more than make up for it. You could treat yourself to a decent coffee or meal at most stops and still be better off.
Even the travelling salesguy who does 30k miles a year almost certainly has enough admin work to occupy his refuelling stops.1 -
Penelopa.Pitstop said:I checked some random map of charging points: Zap-map and according to it, there's no charging point in our town. Closest one is 2 miles away and it's another town. Next one is 2.7 miles away, another town, and then 3.3 miles away, again another town. I checked another website and it showed exactly the same. So there are towns within M25 without charging points.1
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Some basic points
Domestic chargers range from 230V 13A (12 hour charge) or 230V 32A (6 hour charge) - these are single phase units
Domestic charger can only be used on private property you cannot trail 230 power leads over public pavements and roads.
At present only Utility companies installing Street Furnture can install 230/400V electrical equipment on public areas, roads, and pavements
Private and publiuc car parks use 400v 32A chargers and multi-chargers - these are known as 3
phase units.
It is doubtful if there are any 2 phase chargers - 2 phase used to be 440V it is no longer used or supplied unless in special installations. It cannot be used in outside locations due to the absence of an earthed centre or reference conductor.
All EV charging points require an indepedent earth system (TT) which is not part of a different electcal system i.e house. No PME alowed
It is unlikely that 230v charging systems will be allowed on the pavement or roadside and all charging will have to be done on private property parking, private car parks or montitored public car parks.
Finally the EV battery is the car - there was a recent case of a £32,000 Mercedes which had a failed battery after the warranty expired - a replacement battery was priced at £34,000.
If the battery fails - the car is scrap
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