EVs - are we going to be forced into this before time?

seatbeltnoob

I think one side affect of evs and shortage of new cars in general is older petrol and diesel cars will be maintained a bit better.

Before people would just scrap a car when it went to sub £1000 and a clutch or timing was due. But these previously sub £1000 are fetching £1500 to £2000 now and brought them a new lease of life.

I reckon after the ban of ice cars, these end of the line cars will be kept on the road and looked after. 

I have a cat n 2002 golf. The gear shift mechanism broke. Instead of scrapping it, I got it fixed from £210 worth of parts from TPS.

Ice cars will be hot commodity when the ban comes in place. The 2002 to 2008 cars without super fragile engines and expensive sensors that pop all the time are commanding really good prices.

I wanted to upgrade from my 2002 golf hatchback to 2002 golf estate. Good condition ones are £2500!

Ectophile

The government is planning on scrapping the charger installation subsidy for single homes, but keeping it for flats with parking spaces.  So what should happen in blocks of flats is that the management company installs banks of chargers, and issues residents who want to use them with payment cards.

Arklight

There is a theory that ICE cars might vanish much faster than expected. This is because petrol stations already run on quite thin margins so it won't take much of a drop in demand for some to start closing, as is inevitable when people move to EV. 

The perception of the consumer will likely be that fuel is becoming scarce, or inconvenient to buy. Meanwhile, charging stations will be popping up everywhere. Councils are planning to install charging points in lampposts; in the US, places like Starbucks and McDonalds are offering free charging for EVs in the way they already offer free wifi. That will be coming here too.

The same range anxiety that puts people off EVs could rapidly switch around to ICE cars. People already panic at the hint of a fuel shortage. Most people don't really care what powers their car; they just want to make sure they can find it.

TooManyPoints

It can take a bit of planning but the necessity of a 40 minute stop every 150 miles is not exactly a hardship...

Try telling that to a couple with two toddlers and a dog in the back.

...otherwise it's a case of finding a public charger to use, and there are many to choose from.

At a rough count, within a two mile radius of my house (in a well populated area) I reckon there are a dozen (points, not sites) tops. I'll be generous and say 20. That's 20 in 12 square miles. In that same area I estimate (going on the average population of my local authority area) there are about 60,000 residents. Even at one car for every six people (probably an underestimate) that's 10,000 vehicles chasing each charging point. Not what I'd call "plenty to choose from".

This strategy will transpire to be a monumental folly, alongside the utter foolishness and abrogation of responsibility exhibited by successive governments with our energy policy (or lack thereof). This country sits on coal and gas and was a world leader in nuclear energy production. Yet in the coming months most people will be hit with energy bills that are set to double or treble and next winter for many on low incomes it really will be a choice between heating or eating.. The reason for this is because over 50% of its electricity is generated from gas supplied from countries who, let's be kind and say do not have the UK's best interests at heart. Another 10% comes from burning freshly felled timber, processed and shipped 5,000 miles to be burned in Yorkshire. Meantime ICE cars are to be banned in eight years time and huge extra demand will be placed on those electricity supplies. And all the time China continues to burn more coal than the rest of the world combined. It would be an absolute joke if it were not so serious and usually be filed under "you couldn't make it up".

Herzlos

TooManyPoints said:

It can take a bit of planning but the necessity of a 40 minute stop every 150 miles is not exactly a hardship...

Try telling that to a couple with two toddlers and a dog in the back.

With 2 toddlers and a dog I'm surprised you can travel more than 2 hours without stopping anyway. We certainly couldn't.

At a rough count, within a two mile radius of my house (in a well populated area) I reckon there are a dozen (points, not sites) tops. I'll be generous and say 20. That's 20 in 12 square miles. In that same area I estimate (going on the average population of my local authority area) there are about 60,000 residents. Even at one car for every six people (probably an underestimate) that's 10,000 vehicles chasing each charging point. Not what I'd call "plenty to choose fro

And how many electric cars are there within the same area?
There's maybe 20 chargers near here too, but honestly I've never seen more than maybe 1/4 of them in use at any given time.

It's very chicken and egg, and you can't say that we won't have EV infrastructure in the future based on what's available now. Back when cars were gaining popularity there weren't many petrol stations.

This strategy will transpire to be a monumental folly, alongside the utter foolishness and abrogation of responsibility exhibited by successive governments with our energy policy (or lack thereof). This country sits on coal and gas and was a world leader in nuclear energy production. Yet in the coming months most people will be hit with energy bills that are set to double or treble and next winter for many on low incomes it really will be a choice between heating or eating.. The reason for this is because over 50% of its electricity is generated from gas supplied from countries who, let's be kind and say do not have the UK's best interests at heart. Another 10% comes from burning freshly felled timber, processed and shipped 5,000 miles to be burned in Yorkshire. Meantime ICE cars are to be banned in eight years time and huge extra demand will be placed on those electricity supplies. And all the time China continues to burn more coal than the rest of the world combined. It would be an absolute joke if it were not so serious and usually be filed under "you couldn't make it up".

As I understand it, refining oil into petrol and diesel consumes a lot of energy too. Then there's all the transport and storage, etc.
We're more than capable of providing enough electricity to keep everyone's cars fueled up.


New sales of ICE cars will be banned in 8 years time, but the way the market is looking I wouldn't be surprised if no-one is buying them by then anyway. Some manufacturers have already pulled ICE variants of cars from production.

TooManyPoints

We're more than capable of providing enough electricity to keep everyone's cars fueled up.

I hope you're right but I fear you're wrong. In any case it won't be achieved without burning stuff either here or elsewhere and that rather defeats the object.

Herzlos

TooManyPoints said:

We're more than capable of providing enough electricity to keep everyone's cars fueled up.

I hope you're right but I fear you're wrong. In any case it won't be achieved without burning stuff either here or elsewhere and that rather defeats the object.

Why won't we be able to provide enough capacity via wind and water, with nuclear baseline? We've got an incredible amount of hills and water.

Penelopa.Pitstop

Petriix said:

Let's dispel a few myths:

1. EVs can't do long journeys... Well there is such a thing as a rapid charger (of which there are thousands throughout the UK). It can take a bit of planning but the necessity of a 40 minute stop every 150 miles is not exactly a hardship. And, guess what, you don't have to drain your battery by driving everywhere at 70+.
2. People who can't charge at home can't have an EV... Except most people don't drive 200 miles per day, every day. With average mileage of 10k per year, that's less than 30 miles per day so one full charge per week to 10 days. In practice we charge a small amount whenever we can. 40% of my charging is free from supermarkets. People can often charge at work, otherwise it's a case of finding a public charger to use, and there are many to choose from.
3. EVs are expensive to charge... Only if you solely rely on rapid chargers or have an extortionate home electricity tariff. Octopus are still accepting people onto their Go tariff for EVs. It's 7.5p off peak now. That's about 2p per mile in an EV.

Using an Audi Etron as an example of EV efficiency is a bit like using a Landrover as an example for MPG. I'm averaging around 3.8 miles per kWh in total over 10k miles. It's cost under £120 in charging, although I do put quite a lot of effort into minimising the cost where others wouldn't bother.

The fact is that EVs would be impractical for a small proportion of drivers and they are currently financially out of reach for many. As longer range EVs hit the market (range seems to be doubling every 3-4 years), there will be more options for everyone and far less need to really think about charging.

1. It's in no way practical or convenient to stop every 150 miles for minimum of 40 minutes, assuming no one else is occupying charging station and it's not broken. It you can't charge, you have to look for another charging point while running low on "fuel". Electric cars might be fine if you driving around your area, but certainly not for weekend trips or longer euro-trips. Going to camp site 100 miles away and no electricity there, how do I go back? Have to waste time to find a way to charge my car. I drive every summer min. 1000 miles one way and electric car will never be good for that. I will be that stubborn person, that will keep diesel/petrol car as long as possible. I loved 3.0 V6 diesel, it could take me across Europe on one tank.

2. Most people don't, but there are people driving longer distances than school, shop, work around corner.

3. What about others without driveways and charging points at work?

BTW, there are no public charging points in my area. I haven't seen any on the street or supermarket car park. And it's town within M25.

henry24

Just a couple of points I don't understand we get told we can rely on wind power for our electricity but what happens when the wind doesn't blow, it's not that many weeks ago they had to start a coal fired power station as the wind wasn't blowing. 2nd thing when they refine oil the by products make about 6000 other things so how will these things be made 

ElefantEd

You can store energy from times when there is excess wind/solar energy and use it when there are lows. Some countries (Costa Rica, Iceland) already use 100% renewable energy. The wind is always blowing somewhere!

Those other products can still be made, though many of them are really unnecessary and should be banned too (cf the recent ban on one-use plastic to wrap vegetables in France). There will also always be some situations that require fossil fuels of course.