Boundary problem

melb

To section62.  I hadn't been involved in a court case previously either but I questioned and made sure when I moved in where the boundary was on an area of open land between our house and next door.
The fact that the new people who moved in next door 6 months later chose not to accept this as being the boundary led to the court case.

Bendy_House

Section62 said:

Bendy_House said:

Section62 said:

melb said:

The neighbour's insistence that you do not erect a fence is also worrying - I would expect maybe a caravan to appear at some point in the future as otherwise why would they be intent on trying to pinch every last inch?

The neighbour isn't insisting the OP doesn't erect a fence - they are just saying the fence would need to be on the OP's land.

BrainDrained: "He has already told me I can't have a 2m hedge or fence along the back garden."

I'm fairly sure melb was referring to the front garden fence issue, as the neighbour trying to park a caravan in the back garden (with no vehicular access of their own) really would be quite a feat (possibly requiring a crane?).

Hence the relevant information from BrainDrained was -

BrainDrained said:

Unfortunately the idea of a replacement fence isn't workable.  I have already suggested it. Even offered to pay for it.  Neighbour says they want it covered in artificial grass (!) with no physical barrier,  because they need the extra space for opening car doors.
 
Almost their entire front garden is block paved and the width of it wasn't an issue for the previous owners.

I think their insistence that the boundary is along the edge of my drive is a way to prevent me erecting a fence.... 

Ah, I read that differently.

I understood that the rear garden fence - after the neighb removed the mature hedge - was a 3'-high jobbie, that the neighb 'believed' - even said - they had the 'right' to come over at will in order to access their garden from the OP's, since the only other route would be through their house.

If you are correct re this being about the front driveway, then fair do's. If I read it correctly - that covers the rear issue - then this neighb needs nailing down firmly.

theoretica

BrainDrained said:

Regarding the rear garden, he dug up a lot of mature shrubs and trees from his side (wouldn't call it a hedge) while I was away, and this has resulted in a loss of privacy.  The fence is barely 3ft high.  They have a 3 year old who can be very noisy.  I said that because of this loss of privacy and the potential noise nuisance I would like him to replace the fence with a higher one (which is when the discussion about the height of it became rather heated)  I told him if he wouldn't play ball with the fence then I would plant a 6ft hedge.  His response was that this would make his garden feel too enclosed, and block his light.  He walked away when I said I had a right to do what I wanted on my side of the boundary, and I had in fact thought about moving the garage there.  I know he is concerned about losing access to the his garden because he told me he is going to level it and replace the paving slabs/patio with artificial grass.  I can just see his wife agreeing to have all those barrowloads of soil and rubble carried though her pristine kitchen!

Fairness to the neighbour, I would probably get off on the wrong foot if I had just been opening up a garden and was told to raise my fence and close it in again.  Yes you have the right to put a 2m fence on your land - but your neighbour doesn't need to like it and certainly doesn't need to do it for you.

thegreenone

Section62 said:

thegreenone said:

@BrainDrained I don't want to be a doom-monger but you need to get this access to his rear garden sorted asap.  Before he starts bringing builders/diggers etc through to dig up the back garden. 

Please get a boundary surveyor and legal advice.  Yes it will cost, but your peace of mind that it's all sorted is precious, particularly if you want to sell.  

I'd suggest the OP needs to decide on overall strategy before spending money on a boundary surveyor and/or legal advice.

Based on what they have said so far there appears to be no need for either in relation to the rear fence - the position of the boundary isn't disputed, only the OP's right to put up a (higher) fence.  So long as there is nothing in their deeds or planning restrictions on the height of fences, there is nothing to stop them going ahead with a fence up to 2m high (1.8m to be safer).  The only reason not to do this might be worsening of relations with the neighbours, which is not something professionals can really help with.

The front boundary hardly seems worth the expense of a boundary surveyor, especially as the OP thinks it possible that part of their driveway encroaches onto the neighbour's side of the line, and therefore the result of that professional advice might be the OP needing to give up part of their drive.

The question has to be what benefit is going to be achieved here.... and whether that could be achieved by less costly (and time consuming) means.

My thoughts were that the OP needs to sort out the ROW that her NDN thinks he has. That needs to be shut down, legally, asap. before NDN starts his garden renovations.   Anything else can come later.

Norman_Castle

BrainDrained said:

The access to their rear garden isn't as much of an issue as the actual boundary.  I'm quite prepared, as a gesture of good neighbourliness,  to allow (eg) their window cleaner access for example.  But I do need to reinforce the fact that this is a privilege not a right,  and in return I expect the issue of the boundary and fence at the front to be resolved. 

I'd stop all access immediately just for the cheek of him removing the hedge without consulting you and to demonstrate you can. You still haven't explained how people are accessing your garden.

"Good neighbourliness" only works with good neighbours. You get what you give. A lesson your neighbour needs to learn.

[Deleted User]

doodling said:

Hi,

[Deleted User] said:

Bendy_House said:

Do you have LP on your House Insurance?

All that will do is make the house impossible to sell due to the dispute with the neighbor.

I can't see how the OP isn't obliged to declare this already. It appears that there is a dispute as to the location of a boundary and the next door neighbour believes he has right of way over the garden.

If this came to light after I bought the house I would be sueing the OP, either for my costs in moving somewhere else or my legal costs in resolving the dispute - that could be a 5 figure sum - can the OP afford that risk?

Unless there is some evidence, like letters or complaints registered, you wouldn't get anywhere. The seller would just say that they were not disputing the boundary and you couldn't prove otherwise.

BrainDrained

Today I'm going to get on to the local authority planning dept to see if they still have plans available for his extensions.  Not holding out much hope TBH,  they are dated 1975, 1978 and 1985. 

Bendy_House

BrainDrained said:

Today I'm going to get on to the local authority planning dept to see if they still have plans available for his extensions.  Not holding out much hope TBH,  they are dated 1975, 1978 and 1985. 

Try the Planning Dept's on-line portal - most LAs have these records on-line now. Just search for your postcode.

Are you hoping it shows the property boundaries?

And are you writing down everything that goes on, every conversation as verbatim as possible?

Section62

BrainDrained said:

Today I'm going to get on to the local authority planning dept to see if they still have plans available for his extensions.  Not holding out much hope TBH,  they are dated 1975, 1978 and 1985. 

Many authorities have kept all their plans going back to the year dot.  Sometimes the originals, sometimes microfilmed.  So it would be worth asking the question, but....

Bendy_House said:

Try the Planning Dept's on-line portal - most LAs have these records on-line now. Just search for your postcode.

Are you hoping it shows the property boundaries?

....it is unusual for LA's to have their whole back catalogue of plans online.  Digitising large plans (especially when they've been folded up and stored for decades) is expensive, so many authorities have only have a few years worth of plans prior to them moving over to digital record-keeping.

Often authorities have added an entry in the online database to show a planning application exists, but typically with no more than a brief description and application date.

So... a lack of information on the online system doesn't mean they don't have it, and don't expect to find plans from the 1970's online - it would be a bonus if they are.

Section62

thegreenone said:

Section62 said:

thegreenone said:

@BrainDrained I don't want to be a doom-monger but you need to get this access to his rear garden sorted asap.  Before he starts bringing builders/diggers etc through to dig up the back garden. 

Please get a boundary surveyor and legal advice.  Yes it will cost, but your peace of mind that it's all sorted is precious, particularly if you want to sell.  

I'd suggest the OP needs to decide on overall strategy before spending money on a boundary surveyor and/or legal advice.

Based on what they have said so far there appears to be no need for either in relation to the rear fence - the position of the boundary isn't disputed, only the OP's right to put up a (higher) fence.  So long as there is nothing in their deeds or planning restrictions on the height of fences, there is nothing to stop them going ahead with a fence up to 2m high (1.8m to be safer).  The only reason not to do this might be worsening of relations with the neighbours, which is not something professionals can really help with.

My thoughts were that the OP needs to sort out the ROW that her NDN thinks he has. That needs to be shut down, legally, asap. before NDN starts his garden renovations.   Anything else can come later.

From what the OP has said the neighbour doesn't have a RoW, and it isn't clear what exactly the neighbour thinks.

There's no 'legal' reason for the neighbour to have a RoW through the OP's land because the neighbour can just go through his own house instead.  The OP gave the neighbour permission to go through her garden for a specific purpose at a specific time, but that isn't the same as giving someone a RoW.  In the timescales we are looking at here a permission given to walk through the garden can be withdrawn at any time.

The OP does need to shut this down, and do so lawfully (i.e. by not breaching planning restrictions), but there is no apparent need to do so by using a specific 'legal' process (i.e. solicitor's letters or getting an injunction) because the OP could simply introduce a physical access arrangement (aka a locked gate) which will have the same effect.