Boundary problem

BrainDrained

theoretica said:

<snip>
 Would your driveway be workable if nextdoor put a fence up along the edge of the newly cleared area?  The buyers won't know to be emotionally invested in 'how things used to be'.

Unfortunately the idea of a replacement fence isn't workable.  I have already suggested it. Even offered to pay for it.  Neighbour says they want it covered in artificial grass (!) with no physical barrier,  because they need the extra space for opening car doors. 
Almost their entire front garden is block paved and the width of it wasn't an issue for the previous owners.

 I think their insistence that the boundary is along the edge of my drive is a way to prevent me erecting a fence.  He has already told me I can't have a 2m hedge or fence along the back garden. (Unspoken reason is that it would make it impossible to access his rear garden other than via mine.)

BrainDrained

BrainDrained said:<snip>

 I think their insistence that the boundary is along the edge of my drive is a way to prevent me erecting a fence.  He has already told me I can't have a 2m hedge or fence along the back garden. (Unspoken reason is that it would make it impossible to access his rear garden other than via mine.)

Can't figure out how to edit.  Corrected last sentence should read - impossible to access his rear garden other than through his house.

BrainDrained

Norman_Castle said:

<snip>

Mark where you believe the boundary is and cultivate your land. Its Sunday tomorrow, a good day for gardening.

I tried marking it out, using string, but they removed it.  At the moment the patch still has a lot of hedge roots in it & I'm not really sure whether it's worth a lot of physical effort removing just half of them.  It just makes it easier for him to turn up with a load of concrete while I'm not around.  Honestly, I'm getting so stressed about being away from home for more than a couple of hours at a time afraid of what he's going to do next.. 

canaldumidi

BrainDrained said:

...
Yes I want to sell,  the sooner the better,  but this is delaying it. I can't see anyone wanting to inherit this problem. It will have to be declared even if it's not got as far as legal action. 

This is the only relevant factor then.

When selling, if there is an ongoing dispute you will have to declare it, and any sensible buyer will then take to the hills!

So resolve the dispute by agreeing to having the patch of land betwen the drives laid to grass as the neighbour wants. Dispute over.

I doubt a buyer will then start querying where the boundary lies.

Section62

BrainDrained said:

Not sure who originally planted the hedge,  and of course as it was removed while I was absent I didn't get chance to see exactly where the roots were.

Have a look on google streetview (sooner rather than later*) and see whether you can clearly see the base of the hedge.  Check the historic versions as well to see if there are better pictures.

Take screenshots and save them carefully.

*The reason for doing it sooner rather than later is in case the neighbour decides they want privacy and gets google to blur the property out.

BrainDrained said:

Honestly, I'm getting so stressed about being away from home for more than a couple of hours at a time afraid of what he's going to do next.. 

I think theoretica's advice is good.  Weigh up how much impact this will have on your health and the sale.  Is the amount of land enough to make a difference to a buyer?

I could be wrong (someone please correct me if I am) but if you 'agree' with the neighbour that you aren't going to argue with them over the precise position of the boundary then you don't really have a dispute (anymore).  Whether or not you would still have to declare you and the neighbour 'had words' would be something to discuss with your solicitor when the time comes.

Legally the position of the boundary is not going to change.


If you want a fight, then I'm curious about this rear fence issue.  Does that mean the neighbour has to come onto your land in order to get into their rear garden (without going through the house)?

Do they have a right of way which allows that, or are they taking the proverbial?

BrainDrained

Section62 said:

BrainDrained said:

Not sure who originally planted the hedge,  and of course as it was removed while I was absent I didn't get chance to see exactly where the roots were.

Have a look on google streetview (sooner rather than later*) and see whether you can clearly see the base of the hedge.  Check the historic versions as well to see if there are better pictures.

Take screenshots and save them carefully.

*The reason for doing it sooner rather than later is in case the neighbour decides they want privacy and gets google to blur the property out.

BrainDrained said:

Honestly, I'm getting so stressed about being away from home for more than a couple of hours at a time afraid of what he's going to do next.. 

I think theoretica's advice is good.  Weigh up how much impact this will have on your health and the sale.  Is the amount of land enough to make a difference to a buyer?

I could be wrong (someone please correct me if I am) but if you 'agree' with the neighbour that you aren't going to argue with them over the precise position of the boundary then you don't really have a dispute (anymore).  Whether or not you would still have to declare you and the neighbour 'had words' would be something to discuss with your solicitor when the time comes.

Legally the position of the boundary is not going to change.


If you want a fight, then I'm curious about this rear fence issue.  Does that mean the neighbour has to come onto your land in order to get into their rear garden (without going through the house)?

Do they have a right of way which allows that, or are they taking the proverbial?

First,  the streetview pics aren't helpful.  There's a tree and shrub on the side nearest the road which obscures the view (he has also removed these) 

The issue about access over the rear fence - he IS taking the proverbial,  but I did allow him access when they moved in,  so he probably thinks I've granted him perpetual rights rather than a one-off favour.  (To be honest,  it was an on-going issue with the previous owner who probably told him it was OK.)   I know I can't refuse access for essential maintenance if there is no alternative,  but it's unfortunate that the other adjacent properties have substantial hedges and the fence on my side is only 3ft high.  (I have been prevaricating too long about building a garage alongside that part of the garden)  I told him I intended to plant a 6ft hedge on my side of the fence and he told me I couldn't, that "his solicitor told him" hedges and fences on that side are only allowed to be 3ft high.  Strange that it only applies on that one side, and there isn't a similar clause in my deeds!

Section62

BrainDrained said:

First,  the streetview pics aren't helpful.  There's a tree and shrub on the side nearest the road which obscures the view (he has also removed these) 

Have you checked the historic versions as well to see if any of them just have the right angle to see?

BrainDrained said:

The issue about access over the rear fence - he IS taking the proverbial,  but I did allow him access when they moved in,  so he probably thinks I've granted him perpetual rights rather than a one-off favour.  (To be honest,  it was an on-going issue with the previous owner who probably told him it was OK.)   I know I can't refuse access for essential maintenance if there is no alternative,  but it's unfortunate that the other adjacent properties have substantial hedges and the fence on my side is only 3ft high.  (I have been prevaricating too long about building a garage alongside that part of the garden)  I told him I intended to plant a 6ft hedge on my side of the fence and he told me I couldn't, that "his solicitor told him" hedges and fences on that side are only allowed to be 3ft high.  Strange that it only applies on that one side, and there isn't a similar clause in my deeds!

So nothing in your deeds about fence height? And no planning restriction?

I'd suggest that this access 'arrangement' needs stopping if you are marketing the property - the last thing you need when people are viewing is the neighbour hopping over the fence to exercise his 'right'.

In terms of essential maintenance, there are ways of being allowed to enter a neighbour's land if that is the only way of accessing the thing being maintained, but that doesn't give people a right if they have their own access (albeit too small to take a vehicle through).  If he needs to put a ladder or scaffolding on your land to access (say) a gable wall on the boundary then that is the kind of thing the law allows.  It isn't intended to allow someone to (say) bring their lawnmower through the neighbour's garden because they don't want to take it through their own house.  Him coming through your garden for convenience is not what the law is about.

If you are sure you are correct about the deeds, and you want to get this sorted before selling, then I'd suggest a 'tea and cake' kind of discussion where you explain that you want him to respect the front boundary, and only access his rear garden via yours on an exceptional basis and only if he asks for permission first.

If he isn't willing to see reason then look into getting a 6' fence or gate (whatever is appropriate)  Don't bother with a hedge as it isn't likely to grow quickly enough to make a difference.  Don't spend a fortune on fence panels either, hopefully you'll be moving long before they need repair/replacement. You just need to make a point.

Bendy_House

Do you have LP on your House Insurance?

BrainDrained

Bendy_House said:

Do you have LP on your House Insurance?

Yes.  Was hoping to be able to get him to agree the boundary, if not the replacement fence, without having to resort to that.  Reading the T&C it does seem pretty limited in what it covers though.  

I have thought about asking if he will agree to having an independent mediator chair a discussion between us, (because I want a witness to anything he says, so he can't deny it later)  I do know someone who could do this without charging, but I'm not sure he can be regarded as "independent" if its someone I know slightly (through a mutual friend).  I'm not after someone to take sides, just to help us find some way to compromise, and stop us from coming to blows if we can't come to an agreement.

So nothing in your deeds about fence height? And no planning restriction?

Nope.  Only standard restrictions eg max 2m height on anything not adjoining a public highway.  Which incidentally his other neighbours have exceeded, but I note he's not had any disagreements with them.

[Deleted User]

Bendy_House said:

Do you have LP on your House Insurance?

All that will do is make the house impossible to sell due to the dispute with the neighbor.