Boundary problem

BrainDrained

I know,  that old chestnut. 

Really want suggestions on how to sort this out without resorting to solicitors.

Background - new neighbours moved in 6 months ago.  While I was away from home they dug up a hedge along our common boundary at the front of their house. The hedge has been there at least 40 years. This has left a narrow patch of ground, at the maximum about 30inches wide at one side and 2 ft at the other,  between our respective driveways. 
They are now saying that the boundary is actually along the edge of my driveway rather than down the middle of the cleared patch (which is the logical place to have it).

They have shown me the land registry plan as evidence. I have told them the land registry plan does not delineate the actual boundary but he is insisting it is correct. 

They have a side extension that runs down the side of my driveway,  and I have always accepted that the established boundary is 11inches away from their brickwork.  There are 2 downpipes draining on this side.  Previous owners never maintained this strip.

I have photographic evidence that there was always a flower border down the side of my drive.  My parents owned the property from new (both properties were built at the same time.) The first extension to next door was built about 1975. 

My contention is that the historic boundary follows the concrete fence posts in their rear garden in a straight line parallel to their extension towards the road.  This actually gives me very slightly more than half of the cleared patch where the hedge was. 

It might sound petty arguing over such a narrow strip of land but I don't want to give up this because I want some sort of physical barrier between us,  and my driveway isn't wide enough to built a wall or fence.

canaldumidi

Hard to advise without seeing both properties' title Plans, alongside photos of the boundary in question. However:

* if the plans show the boundary as a straight line, then the fence in the rear is a good indicator - just continue that line stright forward to the front.

* is the extension shown on their Plan (if recent it may well not be)? If so, where is the boundary shown in relation to that?

* is there any physical feature at the front where the properties meet the road that gives a clue?

* if the plans show the boundary as equidistant between the properties, have you measured the gap? Where is the centre point?

It sounds like you have a real pain next door - no reasonable neighbour would remove a boundary fence without prior discussion, and as for waiting till you are away.....! But this could easily escalate into an unpleasant neighbour dispute. Are you ready for that?And do you have any intention of selling?

Brie

Was it their hedge to remove?  If it's been there for 40 years then doesn't that grant you some rights over what's on your side?

canaldumidi

Brie said:

Was it their hedge to remove?  If it's been there for 40 years then doesn't that grant you some rights over what's on your side?

The question of whose hedge it is (was!) is not dependant on how long it's been there, but on which side of the boundary the main trunk is (was).

Brie

canaldumidi said:

Brie said:

Was it their hedge to remove?  If it's been there for 40 years then doesn't that grant you some rights over what's on your side?

The question of whose hedge it is (was!) is not dependant on how long it's been there, but on which side of the boundary the main trunk is (was).

ok - so presumably the hedge was just to one side of the boundary line (of course maybe it wasn't).  Then given the hedge was between the 2 driveways the boundary cannot be exactly on the edge of the OPs drive.  

as for length of time - i thought that gave people right of access that the new neighbour is proposing to take away.

desthemoaner

 Trouble with people like that is that if they get away with one incursion on a neighbour's land, its likely to encourage them to try for more. And meantime, as mentioned above, its not in your interests to make the dispute official if you plan to sell your house

canaldumidi

Brie said:

canaldumidi said:

Brie said:

Was it their hedge to remove?  If it's been there for 40 years then doesn't that grant you some rights over what's on your side?

The question of whose hedge it is (was!) is not dependant on how long it's been there, but on which side of the boundary the main trunk is (was).

ok - so presumably the hedge was just to one side of the boundary line (of course maybe it wasn't).  Then given the hedge was between the 2 driveways the boundary cannot be exactly on the edge of the OPs drive.  

as for length of time - i thought that gave people right of access that the new neighbour is proposing to take away.

Not necessarily. The hedge could have been planted exactly on the boundary. In that case actual ownership of the hedge would lie with whoever paid for/planted it!

The position o the hedge might be one of several indcators as to where the boundary is. It could suggest that the boundary line is down the centre line of the hedge, but that just one indicator - as just said, the hedge could have been planted ON the boundary, or on one or the other side of it.

And as I indicted earlier, other factors are also relevant.

theoretica

You mention an extension - if it needed planning permission it is possible the plans for that will show the boundary as it was then thought to be.

BrainDrained

Not sure who originally planted the hedge,  and of course as it was removed while I was absent I didn't get chance to see exactly where the roots were.  The rear fence is neighbour's responsibility so I assume he thought the hedge was as well.

It  is my understanding that a hedge on a common boundary is a joint responsibility irrespective of who planted it, so he had no right to remove it. ( I would have refused had he asked)  

His land registry plan shows the boundary as a straight line from his back garden to a corner of the kerb (it's a cul de sac and I'm in the corner) It does show the extension. I would think the LR plan was supplied on first registration which would be some years after the property was built. 

I measured this straight line myself and it actually cuts across my driveway by a couple of inches,  which is clearly wrong. In any case,  wouldn't the historic boundary,  there since the houses were built,  carry more weight if we resorted to the law? 

Yes I want to sell,  the sooner the better,  but this is delaying it. I can't see anyone wanting to inherit this problem. It will have to be declared even if it's not got as far as legal action. 

Norman_Castle

BrainDrained said:

While I was away from home they dug up a hedge along our common boundary at the front of their house. The hedge has been there at least 40 years. This has left a narrow patch of ground, at the maximum about 30inches wide at one side and 2 ft at the other,  between our respective driveways. 
They are now saying that the boundary is actually along the edge of my driveway rather than down the middle of the cleared patch (which is the logical place to have it).

Explain your driveway didn't go to your boundary because this would have involved removing the 40 year old hedge which you liked. Suggest you believe the boundary is at the edge of their driveway but without any physical evidence the best compromise is halfway between the two, exactly where the hedge was.

Ask them to consult you in future about any work being done on your shared boundary rather than interfering with something which may not belong to them. Ask if they have any holidays planned.

Mark where you believe the boundary is and cultivate your land. Its Sunday tomorrow, a good day for gardening.

theoretica

Hedges very often do belong to one house or the other.

If you want to sell then there seems little point fighting tooth and nail over inches.  Would your driveway be workable if nextdoor put a fence up along the edge of the newly cleared area?  The buyers won't know to be emotionally invested in 'how things used to be'.