Boundary problem

Bendy_House

rigolith said:

Bendy_House said:

Do you have LP on your House Insurance?

All that will do is make the house impossible to sell due to the dispute with the neighbor.

'All'?

It's a fall-back option should you have to conclude you are dealing with an irrational person. And the OP certainly appears to have a hugely inconsiderate and 'entitled' individual next door. And you don't even have to take 'action' using your LP - you simply call them up for advice and guidance; "What are the laws governing this? What am I entitled to do regarding the rear fence? What is the best way to approach getting an agreement over the driveway boundary?"

And something that the OP may well wish to consider, and possibly a few others who shout "You don't want a dispute!"; I'd much rather move in to a new house for which these issues have been resolved properly, even legally, and everyone knew where they stood - even the disgruntled neighbour - than one where a grudging compromise had been 'arrived at' simply to avoid a 'dispute', and the issue could easily resurface.

I've been there - where a neighbour had effectively intimidated the previous owners of our house regarding a boundary. No mention of this in the sales partic's, but the issue was effectively unresolved when we moved in - ie the neighb thought they'd had the upper hand as they'd bent the previous owner into acceptance. That issue has not been fully resolved, and I'm having to deal with it.

I think some folk - very understandably, I know - sometimes set a bit too much store on buying a house where there just mustn't be a recorded issue or dispute with a neighb. Ok, if the house next door is run down, and there's constant loud music or drug-dealing, fair enough! But the simple fact is, neighbours can and do change all of the time, and no-one can guarantee that an irrational and entitled individual won't move in after you've bought your dream house in the dreamy neighbourhood.

With 'entitled' folk - who have got their 'entitlements' wrong - I have reluctantly found the only successful way to deal with them is head on. Compromise or hold back, and they take advantage. These are not rational folk - whatever the actual facts are, they 'think' they are 'right' or 'entitled'.

If the OP 'compromises' over a boundary line at the front of their house simply to keep the peace, what happens if this issue is raised at conveyancing stage? If the potential buyer asks for clarification? What if the new owner finds the idiot next door climbing over their back fence with an "I'm allowed to do this..." dismissal?

I totally agree that if a genuinely acceptable compromise can be reached with both parties in full agreement and both appreciating it's the best overall approach, then that would be just great. That needs 'reason' on both sides. I think the OP has their work cut out in this case, both front and back.

You reckon this neighb isn't going to make a fuss when the OP puts up a 6' fence at the back - which they are almost certainly entitled to do?

[Deleted User]

Bendy_House said:

rigolith said:

Bendy_House said:

Do you have LP on your House Insurance?

All that will do is make the house impossible to sell due to the dispute with the neighbor.

'All'?

It's a fall-back option should you have to conclude you are dealing with an irrational person. And the OP certainly appears to have a hugely inconsiderate and 'entitled' individual next door. And you don't even have to take 'action' using your LP - you simply call them up for advice and guidance; "What are the laws governing this? What am I entitled to do regarding the rear fence? What is the best way to approach getting an agreement over the driveway boundary?"

And something that the OP may well wish to consider, and possibly a few others who shout "You don't want a dispute!"; I'd much rather move in to a new house for which these issues have been resolved properly, even legally, and everyone knew where they stood - even the disgruntled neighbour - than one where a grudging compromise had been 'arrived at' simply to avoid a 'dispute', and the issue could easily resurface.

I've been there - where a neighbour had effectively intimidated the previous owners of our house regarding a boundary. No mention of this in the sales partic's, but the issue was effectively unresolved when we moved in - ie the neighb thought they'd had the upper hand as they'd bent the previous owner into acceptance. That issue has not been fully resolved, and I'm having to deal with it.

I think some folk - very understandably, I know - sometimes set a bit too much store on buying a house where there just mustn't be a recorded issue or dispute with a neighb. Ok, if the house next door is run down, and there's constant loud music or drug-dealing, fair enough! But the simple fact is, neighbours can and do change all of the time, and no-one can guarantee that an irrational and entitled individual won't move in after you've bought your dream house in the dreamy neighbourhood.

With 'entitled' folk - who have got their 'entitlements' wrong - I have reluctantly found the only successful way to deal with them is head on. Compromise or hold back, and they take advantage. These are not rational folk - whatever the actual facts are, they 'think' they are 'right' or 'entitled'.

If the OP 'compromises' over a boundary line at the front of their house simply to keep the peace, what happens if this issue is raised at conveyancing stage? If the potential buyer asks for clarification? What if the new owner finds the idiot next door climbing over their back fence with an "I'm allowed to do this..." dismissal?

I totally agree that if a genuinely acceptable compromise can be reached with both parties in full agreement and both appreciating it's the best overall approach, then that would be just great. That needs 'reason' on both sides. I think the OP has their work cut out in this case, both front and back.

You reckon this neighb isn't going to make a fuss when the OP puts up a 6' fence at the back - which they are almost certainly entitled to do?

TL;DR

If you are thinking of moving then best to just do it, leave the problems for the next owners. As long as you legally don't have to declare it then it's buyer beware.

brianposter

BrainDrained said:

I measured this straight line myself and it actually cuts across my driveway by a couple of inches, 

This sounds rather suspicious.

doodling

Hi,

[Deleted User] said:

Bendy_House said:

Do you have LP on your House Insurance?

All that will do is make the house impossible to sell due to the dispute with the neighbor.

I can't see how the OP isn't obliged to declare this already. It appears that there is a dispute as to the location of a boundary and the next door neighbour believes he has right of way over the garden.

If this came to light after I bought the house I would be sueing the OP, either for my costs in moving somewhere else or my legal costs in resolving the dispute - that could be a 5 figure sum - can the OP afford that risk?

Brie

I have thought about asking if he will agree to having an independent mediator chair a discussion between us, (because I want a witness to anything he says, so he can't deny it later)  I do know someone who could do this without charging, but I'm not sure he can be regarded as "independent" if its someone I know slightly (through a mutual friend).  I'm not after someone to take sides, just to help us find some way to compromise, and stop us from coming to blows if we can't come to an agreement.

What you need is a scribe and a recording device.  Anyone can be a witness even if they know you or him.  But be recording the session you have an accurate account of what was said.  And then a scribe can turn the recording into a printed version of that.  

Then again if it turns into a right bun fight you and any potential purchaser has an accurate record of the dispute.  

theoretica

There are professional boundary surveyors - who will look at all the evidence and decide where the boundary actually is.

Section62

Bendy_House said:

[Deleted User] said:

Bendy_House said:

Do you have LP on your House Insurance?

All that will do is make the house impossible to sell due to the dispute with the neighbor.

'All'?

It's a fall-back option should you have to conclude you are dealing with an irrational person. And the OP certainly appears to have a hugely inconsiderate and 'entitled' individual next door. And you don't even have to take 'action' using your LP - you simply call them up for advice and guidance; "What are the laws governing this? What am I entitled to do regarding the rear fence? What is the best way to approach getting an agreement over the driveway boundary?"

The thing is, this situation is a relatively straightforward one, and the OP has already had good advice here - along with their own knowledge of the 'rules' about the back fence - that there isn't a great deal that LP is likely to be able to add.  Other than a 'professional' confirmation of what he already knows.

The solutions are fairly simple if the OP wants to go for it - put up a fence to deal with the back garden, and (optionally) put a low fence along where he believes the front boundary to be.  Then deal with the fallout if the neighbour kicks off....

Bendy_House said:

And something that the OP may well wish to consider, and possibly a few others who shout "You don't want a dispute!"; I'd much rather move in to a new house for which these issues have been resolved properly, even legally, and everyone knew where they stood - even the disgruntled neighbour - than one where a grudging compromise had been 'arrived at' simply to avoid a 'dispute', and the issue could easily resurface.

....however, as theoretica put it (so well), think about whether a buyer will have the same concerns that the OP does - the OP wants a boundary (fence) at the front, but will the eventual buyer care less whether there is one or not?

When you are in a position where you are "getting so stressed about being away from home for more than a couple of hours at a time" then if you are already planning to move away there is a lot to be said for just letting this all wash over you... and just move. 

I wouldn't 'shout' it, but I might calmly suggest that not wanting a dispute is also about remembering the OP's health is far more important than whether a future buyer might be upset about a lack of fence/hedge on the boundary.  (not wanting to diminish the neighbour's outrageous behaviour though)


Edit: Forgot to mention the other point - that if the OP is selling then they will soon have a solicitor dealing with that.  IMV it is better to take advice from a solicitor directly involved in a case, not one offering more generic advice.  Notwithstanding the LP advice is effectively 'free'.

BrainDrained

I've pulled the estate agent's particulars from Zoopla & they show the hedge though unfortunately not the roots.  StreetView is no use as there are cars parked on the drive which obstruct the view (2009 & 2011)

Regarding the rear garden, he dug up a lot of mature shrubs and trees from his side (wouldn't call it a hedge) while I was away, and this has resulted in a loss of privacy.  The fence is barely 3ft high.  They have a 3 year old who can be very noisy.  I said that because of this loss of privacy and the potential noise nuisance I would like him to replace the fence with a higher one (which is when the discussion about the height of it became rather heated)  I told him if he wouldn't play ball with the fence then I would plant a 6ft hedge.  His response was that this would make his garden feel too enclosed, and block his light.  He walked away when I said I had a right to do what I wanted on my side of the boundary, and I had in fact thought about moving the garage there.  I know he is concerned about losing access to the his garden because he told me he is going to level it and replace the paving slabs/patio with artificial grass.  I can just see his wife agreeing to have all those barrowloads of soil and rubble carried though her pristine kitchen!

I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that he's a bully and picking on me because I'm twice his age therefore he sees me as a feeble old woman.  Actually I think his wife is behind a lot of the changes he says wants to make, and I can understand this house being her pride and joy and wanting to put her own stamp on it.  Just not at my expense. I wonder if he would have dug up the hedge if they had realised it would create all this bad feeling.


To comment on the post from Bendy_House  a few back (don't want to quote it all)

And something that the OP may well wish to consider, and possibly a few others who shout "You don't want a dispute!"; I'd much rather move in to a new house for which these issues have been resolved properly, even legally, and everyone knew where they stood - even the disgruntled neighbour - than one where a grudging compromise had been 'arrived at' simply to avoid a 'dispute', and the issue could easily resurface.

Assuming we get this resolved, to the point where we can lodge a formal declaration of boundary with the Land Registry, then presumably this wouldn't be a bar to a future sale (other than by illustrating a possible problem with a nasty neighbour)

Brie

There's nothing to stop you putting up a fence on your side of the boundary in the back and tell them it's "to keep 3 yo from intruding on your privacy".

Norman_Castle

BrainDrained said:

  I know he is concerned about losing access to the his garden because he told me he is going to level it and replace the paving slabs/patio with artificial grass.

Unless either his or your deeds state there is access to his garden through yours then there is no access, he's losing nothing. Ignore claims of what his solicitor said. How does he get in to your garden to then access his?

There is a right of access over neighbouring properties for essential maintenance such as repairing a wall or guttering along a boundary which is otherwise inaccessible. This doesn't include access where there is an alternate option such as moving materials through the property.

"I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that he's a bully and picking on me because I'm twice his age therefore he sees me as a feeble old woman."

Do you avoid confrontation with him because he is physically threatening? If he threatens you call the police. Use being a "feeble old woman" to your advantage, stand up to him, he knows if he touches you the police will be involved.