How do ordinary people make the switch to electric vehicles ?

Brie

Can anyone tell generally how big and how accessible the batteries are?

I ask as we did have a hybrid Lexus and ran into a problem when the battery stopped charging.  Because the battery was huge it was under the back seats.  The only way to get to it was to essentially dismantle the interior of the car which would have cost £1k.  At that point they would be able to tell us if the problem could be fixed and how much fixing it would cost.  And then reassembling the car for another £1k.   I guess one might say that there's lots that go wrong with ICE cars that would cost similar amounts but normally I would expect an overall guesstimate of the repair costs rather than just saying "anywhere from £1k to infinity and beyond!"

MX5huggy

Tesla don’t even bother with “servicing”. 

The service items on a EV are no different from an ICE and those things are simple and cheap, brake pads disks and fluid. Filter changes for AC. There’s no training needed beyond don’t touch the EV stuff. 

motorguy

Sea_Shell said:

But for many people, purchase price still rules.  They need a car and can only afford £x, now!  Either cash, or old style finance.

Knowing it'll cost less, long term, is of no consolation for those on a tight budget.   

Well, thats really why everyone changing now to electric doesnt work and we all need time to adjust and the market at the lower end needs to grow (being fed by new -> used cars further up the price points) and confidence needs to grow also.  Support for battery refurbishments needs to be more widespread too.

It will be an evolving situation that will change dramatically over time. 

DrEskimo

Brie said:

Can anyone tell generally how big and how accessible the batteries are?

I ask as we did have a hybrid Lexus and ran into a problem when the battery stopped charging.  Because the battery was huge it was under the back seats.  The only way to get to it was to essentially dismantle the interior of the car which would have cost £1k.  At that point they would be able to tell us if the problem could be fixed and how much fixing it would cost.  And then reassembling the car for another £1k.   I guess one might say that there's lots that go wrong with ICE cars that would cost similar amounts but normally I would expect an overall guesstimate of the repair costs rather than just saying "anywhere from £1k to infinity and beyond!"

https://youtu.be/Ws9Y1be8N-U

This is true of basically ever EV I know. All located underneath and a diagnostic tool can identify the faulty cells for replacement.

For the Leaf and Zoe, the increased battery capacities are the same size and shape, so older models can be upgraded with larger batteries.

Grumpy_chap

Comparisons between battery servicing on a hybrid and an EV may not be fair. 

I had a regular Toyota hybrid and the batteries were inaccessible under the rear seat.  Essentially squeezed in as an afterthought to an ICE car (presumably by shrinking the fuel tank which is often in that location) and probably not required to be particularly maintainable as you still have a functioning ICE car if the battery capacity reduces.

An EV has the battery designed as a core component from the outset and if the battery fails it has to be fixed.

dipsomaniac

When I can buy a ev for £200 I'm in 😀

shinytop

Grumpy_chap said:

Sea_Shell said:

I'd suggest there aren't many "ordinary" people who can afford £500+ a month for a car, fullstop.

I agree totally, and I certainly couldn't. 
Even the more modest entry-level Octavia is still list price £22k, broker price £19k, PCP £320 monthly.

That said, the Octavia (even the VRS version) is not a car that would commonly be deemed as anything other than aimed at the masses.  The profile of cars on the road shows that, clearly, many people can finance this type of vehicle or better. 

In fact, I was only looking at Octavia cars at all because my Nephew is looking for one and I could not believe how expensive they are.  Even the more modest entry-level Octavia is still list price £22k, broker price £19k, PCP £320 monthly.

The point of the post was to show the comparison between an ICE and an EV in cost terms.  With the TM3 vs Octavia VRS, the TM3 will likely be lower total cost for the typical new car buyer.  When you then add in that the Tesla is a "premium" brand versus the Skoda "affordable" brand plus the extra equipment on the Tesla, the EV starts to look good value.

Given that as a binary choice (Octavia VRS vs TM3) , I'd go for the EV.

Sea_Shell said:

What are the EV cars you can get for a purchase price of, say, £5000.  Comparative to an ICE Focus/Astra at that price point?

I agree that is not easy at the moment, but it is starting to become possible and will only improve.

This Focus, 2013, 60k miles, £5.5k
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111019127804

This Leaf, 2013, 40k miles, £6.5k
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111049223132

£1k or 20% extra for the Leaf, but total cost of ownership will likely be comparable.  It is not inconceivable that the EV makes a rationale choice and as the new technology starts to age, with more supply of used EV, this will become the obvious choice.  For the supply of used EV to grow, the choice of new EV has to happen by those buying new cars.

I accept, though, given that as a binary choice (£5.5k Focus vs £6.5k Leaf), I'd go for the ICE.  It is clear that the way the market is developing, this is an equation that will likely soon flip.

That (the bit I've made bold) is precisely the problem.  There aren't decent any EVs available new for £19k.  In order to get a comparable price to the Tesla you need to buy a cheap ICE car and bung a load of extras on it. 

How would a more premium ICE/PHEV compare to the Tesla? More likely to be Tesla's market. 

Grumpy_chap

shinytop said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I agree totally, and I certainly couldn't. 
Even the more modest entry-level Octavia is still list price £22k, broker price £19k, PCP £320 monthly.

That (the bit I've made bold) is precisely the problem.  There aren't decent any EVs available new for £19k.  In order to get a comparable price to the Tesla you need to buy a cheap ICE car and bung a load of extras on it. 

How would a more premium ICE/PHEV compare to the Tesla? More likely to be Tesla's market. 

I don't agree.

To compare to the entry-level Octavia, the MG5 from £26k list would be comparable (and I think discounts are available @Petriix will know).  Almost certainly, the MG5 EV would be cheaper life-cycle cost than the Octavia.

The Tesla has a very high level of equipment so has to be compared to an ICE with a similar high level of equipment.  In fact, I was surprised how close an "affordable" family hatch was in price when compared to the Tesla.

If you compare a "premium" ICE to the Tesla, say an A4, then a similar equipment level is going to see the ICE at similar list price and the overall cost of the Tesla ever-more favourable.

dipsomaniac

What does 'affordable' mean?

Grumpy_chap

dipsomaniac said:

What does 'affordable' mean?

Well, the Octavia is a mass-market, even "budget" brand - not paying extra for the badge.