How do ordinary people make the switch to electric vehicles ?

DrEskimo

Sea_Shell said:

But for many people, purchase price still rules.  They need a car and can only afford £x, now!  Either cash, or old style finance.

Knowing it'll cost less, long term, is of no consolation for those on a tight budget.   

In 2018 I was able to buy a lightly used EV from a main dealer with a real world range of 150miles (130 in winter, 170 in summer), all still under warranty for another 2-yrs for £14k.

IMHO, by 2030 there will be a plethora of options for very capable EVs (the new generation Zoe can do 200miles no problem) in the used market at the £5-15k mark.

troffasky

Sea_Shell said:

But for many people, purchase price still rules.  They need a car and can only afford £x, now!  Either cash, or old style finance.

Knowing it'll cost less, long term, is of no consolation for those on a tight budget.   

Cars that cost more in the first place will take longer to reach £x. You'll just have to be patient.

Sea_Shell

troffasky said:

Sea_Shell said:

But for many people, purchase price still rules.  They need a car and can only afford £x, now!  Either cash, or old style finance.

Knowing it'll cost less, long term, is of no consolation for those on a tight budget.   

Cars that cost more in the first place will take longer to reach £x. You'll just have to be patient.

I didn't mean me, personally.   I "could" go EV tomorrow, if I chose to.  But I'm not in the market for a new(er) car.

DH is not convinced about EVs yet.

We're not "early adopters" when it comes to new stuff.

[Deleted User]

DrEskimo said:

half_empty said:

Most people I know wouldn't be buying anything in those price ranges.

Never bought on the never never so that is out the question. Always cash on purchase in the past. Probably bought the last new one I am likely to have (ex demo) a few years ago. Big problem for me buying second hand is battery life/warranty/reliability several owners on, need some reassurance that reliability vs battery is not going to bite hard unless there are any life time warrantee regardless of ownership?
Need to understand more about the power plant myself, I will never be buying new unless Boris is feeling generous.

I would jump at the opportunity but too many worries at the 5 grand price range at the moment.

I honestly wouldn't be too concerned with second hand EVs. The entire used = warn-out useless battery is overplayed, perpetuated largely by the very early Leaf's.

Case in point, I bought my Zoe used, but it was only 2-yrs old with 5,000miles on the clock. The battery and range were like new, and given my modest mileage over the last 3-yrs I've owned it (sitting at 15,000miles), it's still in great health and I have noticed no difference in range (~150 averaged over the year).

Now when I bought it, it wasn't in the £5k range, but at £14k it was hardly masses of money. Today I would hope to sell it for about £12k at least so it's certainly what I would deem an 'affordable' EV, with decent range, for it's mileage, spec and age. Comparable Clio's are not much cheaper at around £9-10k.

It won't be long till a lot of these and the newer 50kWh battery EVs start reaching the used market, and I would have no worried about longevity personally.

Besides, my Zoe has a warranty on the battery for 8-yrs, and I am extending the car warranty every year (~£300/year), which I can do till it's 10-yrs old. So really, all the benefits of a new car, at much less cost.

That's the problem. I have no yard stick except I expect batteries to degrade and a manufacture warranty on say 15 years life would be useful. 15 to optimistic? then 10.

This is one of my main concerns, I want to, but niggling doubts need to be assuaged. That and the initial outlay. There is a finite pot of loot (I don't do HP) and coupled with the battery, existing car (soon to be single not multiple) and real world buying a decent car, the gap in the chasm is not quite jumpable at the moment.

Hopefully in a few years I will be there but not at the moment.

DrEskimo

half_empty said:

DrEskimo said:

half_empty said:

Most people I know wouldn't be buying anything in those price ranges.

Never bought on the never never so that is out the question. Always cash on purchase in the past. Probably bought the last new one I am likely to have (ex demo) a few years ago. Big problem for me buying second hand is battery life/warranty/reliability several owners on, need some reassurance that reliability vs battery is not going to bite hard unless there are any life time warrantee regardless of ownership?
Need to understand more about the power plant myself, I will never be buying new unless Boris is feeling generous.

I would jump at the opportunity but too many worries at the 5 grand price range at the moment.

I honestly wouldn't be too concerned with second hand EVs. The entire used = warn-out useless battery is overplayed, perpetuated largely by the very early Leaf's.

Case in point, I bought my Zoe used, but it was only 2-yrs old with 5,000miles on the clock. The battery and range were like new, and given my modest mileage over the last 3-yrs I've owned it (sitting at 15,000miles), it's still in great health and I have noticed no difference in range (~150 averaged over the year).

Now when I bought it, it wasn't in the £5k range, but at £14k it was hardly masses of money. Today I would hope to sell it for about £12k at least so it's certainly what I would deem an 'affordable' EV, with decent range, for it's mileage, spec and age. Comparable Clio's are not much cheaper at around £9-10k.

It won't be long till a lot of these and the newer 50kWh battery EVs start reaching the used market, and I would have no worried about longevity personally.

Besides, my Zoe has a warranty on the battery for 8-yrs, and I am extending the car warranty every year (~£300/year), which I can do till it's 10-yrs old. So really, all the benefits of a new car, at much less cost.

That's the problem. I have no yard stick except I expect batteries to degrade and a manufacture warranty on say 15 years life would be useful. 15 to optimistic? then 10.

This is one of my main concerns, I want to, but niggling doubts need to be assuaged. That and the initial outlay. There is a finite pot of loot (I don't do HP) and coupled with the battery, existing car (soon to be single not multiple) and real world buying a decent car, the gap in the chasm is not quite jumpable at the moment.

Hopefully in a few years I will be there but not at the moment.

Yea absolutely. Seems a sensible to give it a while and wait.

I too have no interest in donating thousands of pounds in interest to multi-billion pound finance companies, but I spent a couple of years saving and was in a position to make the jump (I also made use of a finance deal to get free services and discount, but then settled in full).

I must admit, the Zoe is hardly a car I 'wanted', and coming from an Audi S5 it certainly was a step backwards in terms of refinement, but I tend to view cars more as a utility now! My 70mile round commute is more than comfortable in the Zoe.

I too hope the choice and price will be improved when I come to changing. One thing is for sure, I don't even consider buying an ICE ever again....

Petriix

Sea_Shell said:

But for many people, purchase price still rules.  They need a car and can only afford £x, now!  Either cash, or old style finance.

Knowing it'll cost less, long term, is of no consolation for those on a tight budget.   

So buy one on finance.

Just don't compare the £160 per month for the Golf with the £275 per month for the ID3 (or whatever EV you're looking at) without also factoring in the £75 per month fuel savings, the (average) £30 per month lower maintenance and the VED savings etc.

If you do the basic sums, the *monthly* cost for the EV works out broadly similar.

Grumpy_chap

Petriix said:

£30 per month lower maintenance 

I'm interested to know what the actual servicing costs are for an EV.

In theory, the servicing should be a lot cheaper than for an ICE as there is simply less to maintain. 

Does this reflect in the actual servicing prices charged to customers?  Or do the EV manufacturers price the servicing to a similar level as ICE servicing as drivers are pre-conditioned to £175 for interim service and £350 major service and just accept that?

In addition, how does the servicing cost get controlled through competition? 
Can independent garages service EV's thus exerting market-influence on the main dealer rates?  

There was an item on BBC Breakfast News earlier in the week citing a massive shortage of skilled technicians to service EV's and the spokesman (whoever he represented) claiming that the shortage was driving service costs up so EV's would be very expensive.  I did think at the time that was (a) just the message required to increase EV take up - NOT:) and (b) likely a spokesman from a group with a vested interest in driving the rates up.

Petriix

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

£30 per month lower maintenance 

I'm interested to know what the actual servicing costs are for an EV.

In theory, the servicing should be a lot cheaper than for an ICE as there is simply less to maintain. 

Does this reflect in the actual servicing prices charged to customers?  Or do the EV manufacturers price the servicing to a similar level as ICE servicing as drivers are pre-conditioned to £175 for interim service and £350 major service and just accept that?

In addition, how does the servicing cost get controlled through competition? 
Can independent garages service EV's thus exerting market-influence on the main dealer rates?  

There was an item on BBC Breakfast News earlier in the week citing a massive shortage of skilled technicians to service EV's and the spokesman (whoever he represented) claiming that the shortage was driving service costs up so EV's would be very expensive.  I did think at the time that was (a) just the message required to increase EV take up - NOT:) and (b) likely a spokesman from a group with a vested interest in driving the rates up.

This is the 3 year service plan I was quoted (from the MG main dealer I bought from):



That's £253 total for all three services and first MOT including the admin fee.

troffasky

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

£30 per month lower maintenance 

I'm interested to know what the actual servicing costs are for an EV.

£200 for a first service [2y] on an e-Golf. £55 parts: "cleaner", "Od. Filter", a new rear wiper and key battery, £146 in labour.

I am not entirely convinced it was good value for money. Although it was half the price of the equivalent service on a Mazda 6.

DrEskimo

Grumpy_chap said:

Petriix said:

£30 per month lower maintenance 

I'm interested to know what the actual servicing costs are for an EV.

In theory, the servicing should be a lot cheaper than for an ICE as there is simply less to maintain. 

Does this reflect in the actual servicing prices charged to customers?  Or do the EV manufacturers price the servicing to a similar level as ICE servicing as drivers are pre-conditioned to £175 for interim service and £350 major service and just accept that?

In addition, how does the servicing cost get controlled through competition? 
Can independent garages service EV's thus exerting market-influence on the main dealer rates?  

There was an item on BBC Breakfast News earlier in the week citing a massive shortage of skilled technicians to service EV's and the spokesman (whoever he represented) claiming that the shortage was driving service costs up so EV's would be very expensive.  I did think at the time that was (a) just the message required to increase EV take up - NOT:) and (b) likely a spokesman from a group with a vested interest in driving the rates up.

The Zoe is mixed.

When I first got it the standard annual service (A and B service) was around the £70, but now it's closer to £160 from the same dealer.

There are also other services that are not needed for warranty but include the coolant change (~£300 every 4th year I think) battery (this is only £50 and can be done DIY without much fuss) and brake fluid (around £150).

Regarding indie, there is a website called HEVRA that shows qualified garages that service and repair EVs. One close to me that I am tempted to try.