How do ordinary people make the switch to electric vehicles ?

shinytop

Grumpy_chap said:

shinytop said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I agree totally, and I certainly couldn't. 
Even the more modest entry-level Octavia is still list price £22k, broker price £19k, PCP £320 monthly.

That (the bit I've made bold) is precisely the problem.  There aren't decent any EVs available new for £19k.  In order to get a comparable price to the Tesla you need to buy a cheap ICE car and bung a load of extras on it. 

How would a more premium ICE/PHEV compare to the Tesla? More likely to be Tesla's market. 

I don't agree.

To compare to the entry-level Octavia, the MG5 from £26k list would be comparable (and I think discounts are available @Petriix will know).  Almost certainly, the MG5 EV would be cheaper life-cycle cost than the Octavia.

The Tesla has a very high level of equipment so has to be compared to an ICE with a similar high level of equipment.  In fact, I was surprised how close an "affordable" family hatch was in price when compared to the Tesla.

If you compare a "premium" ICE to the Tesla, say an A4, then a similar equipment level is going to see the ICE at similar list price and the overall cost of the Tesla ever-more favourable.

But there aren't any decent EVs for £19k, are there?  I'm sure the MG is fine but it's £26k. It's good that EV prices are closing in on ICE but £42k/£500 is fantasy time for most people.     

Petriix

shinytop said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Sea_Shell said:

I'd suggest there aren't many "ordinary" people who can afford £500+ a month for a car, fullstop.

I agree totally, and I certainly couldn't. 
Even the more modest entry-level Octavia is still list price £22k, broker price £19k, PCP £320 monthly.

That said, the Octavia (even the VRS version) is not a car that would commonly be deemed as anything other than aimed at the masses.  The profile of cars on the road shows that, clearly, many people can finance this type of vehicle or better. 

In fact, I was only looking at Octavia cars at all because my Nephew is looking for one and I could not believe how expensive they are.  Even the more modest entry-level Octavia is still list price £22k, broker price £19k, PCP £320 monthly.

The point of the post was to show the comparison between an ICE and an EV in cost terms.  With the TM3 vs Octavia VRS, the TM3 will likely be lower total cost for the typical new car buyer.  When you then add in that the Tesla is a "premium" brand versus the Skoda "affordable" brand plus the extra equipment on the Tesla, the EV starts to look good value.

Given that as a binary choice (Octavia VRS vs TM3) , I'd go for the EV.

Sea_Shell said:

What are the EV cars you can get for a purchase price of, say, £5000.  Comparative to an ICE Focus/Astra at that price point?

I agree that is not easy at the moment, but it is starting to become possible and will only improve.

This Focus, 2013, 60k miles, £5.5k
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111019127804

This Leaf, 2013, 40k miles, £6.5k
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111049223132

£1k or 20% extra for the Leaf, but total cost of ownership will likely be comparable.  It is not inconceivable that the EV makes a rationale choice and as the new technology starts to age, with more supply of used EV, this will become the obvious choice.  For the supply of used EV to grow, the choice of new EV has to happen by those buying new cars.

I accept, though, given that as a binary choice (£5.5k Focus vs £6.5k Leaf), I'd go for the ICE.  It is clear that the way the market is developing, this is an equation that will likely soon flip.

That (the bit I've made bold) is precisely the problem.  There aren't decent any EVs available new for £19k.  In order to get a comparable price to the Tesla you need to buy a cheap ICE car and bung a load of extras on it. 

How would a more premium ICE/PHEV compare to the Tesla? More likely to be Tesla's market. 

At the lowest point in the market, a handful of base spec MG5s showed up pre-reg on Autotrader for under £19k. There were also some MG ZS EVs for around that price. These deals are no longer available.

You can pick up the newer, longer range MG5 from about £23k now. There have been some heavy discounts on the VW ID3 bringing it to around £25k.

Unfortunately second hand prices are crazy right now so there's nothing comparable in the used market. It's worth keeping an eye on AT to see when the good deals show up.

Grumpy_chap

shinytop said:

But there aren't any decent EVs for £19k, are there?  I'm sure the MG is fine but it's £26k. It's good that EV prices are closing in on ICE but £42k/£500 is fantasy time for most people.     

I've never said that the £500 monthly is anything other than fantasy - but so often we are told the only thing that matters is the "monthlies"

That said, looking just now, the MG5 EV is available at under £22k discounted brand new so much closer to the £19k Octavia.  Total cost of ownership of the MG5 EV will be much lower.

[Deleted User]

shinytop said:

Grumpy_chap said:

shinytop said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I agree totally, and I certainly couldn't. 
Even the more modest entry-level Octavia is still list price £22k, broker price £19k, PCP £320 monthly.

That (the bit I've made bold) is precisely the problem.  There aren't decent any EVs available new for £19k.  In order to get a comparable price to the Tesla you need to buy a cheap ICE car and bung a load of extras on it. 

How would a more premium ICE/PHEV compare to the Tesla? More likely to be Tesla's market. 

I don't agree.

To compare to the entry-level Octavia, the MG5 from £26k list would be comparable (and I think discounts are available @Petriix will know).  Almost certainly, the MG5 EV would be cheaper life-cycle cost than the Octavia.

The Tesla has a very high level of equipment so has to be compared to an ICE with a similar high level of equipment.  In fact, I was surprised how close an "affordable" family hatch was in price when compared to the Tesla.

If you compare a "premium" ICE to the Tesla, say an A4, then a similar equipment level is going to see the ICE at similar list price and the overall cost of the Tesla ever-more favourable.

But there aren't any decent EVs for £19k, are there?  I'm sure the MG is fine but it's £26k. It's good that EV prices are closing in on ICE but £42k/£500 is fantasy time for most people.     

A nearly new Leaf or discounted eUp can be had for 19k in normal times. Obviously right now prices are crazy.

Flight3287462

BOWFER said:

Oh god, this old nonsense spouted by people in pubs when electric cars are mentioned.
Firstly, less than 10% of cobalt mined is used in electric cars.
Secondly, the child labour 'thing' was restricted to the democratic republic of congo and car manufacturers stopped sourcing from there years ago, they source from other ethical sources.
BMW and Tesla, for example, openly state they buy from Morocco and Australia.
And completely cobalt-free batteries are very close.

Annual supply of Cobalt is aroud 140,000 tonnes of which the DRC produces 95,000 tonnes 68% of world production. 

Batteries consume 62% or about 74,000 tonnes of cobalt.

I think you figures are a little out.

And I haven't even mentioned the the changes in chemistry and dangers of reducing the cobalt content in Li batteries and replacing it with alternatives.

Jenni_D

Flight3287462 said:

BOWFER said:

Oh god, this old nonsense spouted by people in pubs when electric cars are mentioned.
Firstly, less than 10% of cobalt mined is used in electric cars.
Secondly, the child labour 'thing' was restricted to the democratic republic of congo and car manufacturers stopped sourcing from there years ago, they source from other ethical sources.
BMW and Tesla, for example, openly state they buy from Morocco and Australia.
And completely cobalt-free batteries are very close.

Annual supply of Cobalt is aroud 140,000 tonnes of which the DRC produces 95,000 tonnes 68% of world production. 

Batteries consume 62% or about 74,000 tonnes of cobalt.

I think you figures are a little out.

And I haven't even mentioned the the changes in chemistry and dangers of reducing the cobalt content in Li batteries and replacing it with alternatives.

All 74,000 tonnes is used in electric vehicle batteries?

Flight3287462

Jenni_D said:

Flight3287462 said:

BOWFER said:

Oh god, this old nonsense spouted by people in pubs when electric cars are mentioned.
Firstly, less than 10% of cobalt mined is used in electric cars.
Secondly, the child labour 'thing' was restricted to the democratic republic of congo and car manufacturers stopped sourcing from there years ago, they source from other ethical sources.
BMW and Tesla, for example, openly state they buy from Morocco and Australia.
And completely cobalt-free batteries are very close.

Annual supply of Cobalt is aroud 140,000 tonnes of which the DRC produces 95,000 tonnes 68% of world production. 

Batteries consume 62% or about 74,000 tonnes of cobalt.

I think you figures are a little out.

And I haven't even mentioned the the changes in chemistry and dangers of reducing the cobalt content in Li batteries and replacing it with alternatives.

All 74,000 tonnes is used in electric vehicle batteries?

No, Li Batteries not necessarily EV.  The batteries are generally the same anyway either cells (similar to AA) or pouches.

dipsomaniac

Grumpy_chap said:

dipsomaniac said:

What does 'affordable' mean?

Well, the Octavia is a mass-market, even "budget" brand - not paying extra for the badge.

What does that mean?

dipsomaniac

When you can buy a ev for £200 I'm in. Have no idea about some of the language in this thread

MovingForwards

I'm still watching and reading, but had a bit of time to think about what I would need from an EV to consider making the move from my petrol car to buying one.

Initial outlay is still a major thing for me, I cannot maintain / commit to a monthly rental / loan payment.

As I don't have the option of charging at home, unless I can remove the battery and bring it into the flat, I would incur connection charges and be waiting around until it was fully charged.

I would only want to charge it once a week and that charge would need to consistently get me 350 miles.

As for the actual car itself, 3 doors and C1 size, basic models are fine.

I am genuinely interested in knowing what I could get, for a low budget, that meets my wants / needs and how long it would take to charge. Let's pretend it's normal times for ease.