Electric car charging points to be installed at ALL new properties

user1977

Deleted_User said:

user1977 said:

Deleted_User said:

What about properties without garages or parking spaces ?

If they don't have parking spaces that's presumably because they're deemed to be for occupation by non-car-owners, so why would they need charging points?

There are plenty of properties (some built in the last 50 years) without any parking space close to the property 

Yes, but we're talking about developments being proposed now. They're not likely to get consent without parking spaces, other than in the sort of urban areas where the residents can easily get away without a car (in which case they're likely to be excluded from residents parking schemes and the like).

[Deleted User]

user1977 said:

Deleted_User said:

user1977 said:

Deleted_User said:

What about properties without garages or parking spaces ?

If they don't have parking spaces that's presumably because they're deemed to be for occupation by non-car-owners, so why would they need charging points?

There are plenty of properties (some built in the last 50 years) without any parking space close to the property 

Yes, but we're talking about developments being proposed now. They're not likely to get consent without parking spaces, other than in the sort of urban areas where the residents can easily get away without a car (in which case they're likely to be excluded from residents parking schemes and the like).

What about flats - they tend not to have gardens and often have shared parking spaces (even new builds)

Are flat residents not allowed to have cars ?

user1977

Deleted_User said:

user1977 said:

Deleted_User said:

user1977 said:

Deleted_User said:

What about properties without garages or parking spaces ?

If they don't have parking spaces that's presumably because they're deemed to be for occupation by non-car-owners, so why would they need charging points?

There are plenty of properties (some built in the last 50 years) without any parking space close to the property 

Yes, but we're talking about developments being proposed now. They're not likely to get consent without parking spaces, other than in the sort of urban areas where the residents can easily get away without a car (in which case they're likely to be excluded from residents parking schemes and the like).

What about flats - they tend not to have gardens and often have shared parking spaces (even new builds)

Are flat residents not allowed to have cars ?

They'll only be "not allowed to have cars" where there's a justification for spaces not being provided and adequate transport available for residents. Otherwise the development will be expected to have adequate parking provision. I would say it's pretty normal these days for new developments to have allocated spaces rather than a free-for-all. There's a new development across the road from me with charging points at all the parking spaces in its car park.

Biggus_Dickus

Deleted_User said:

user1977 said:

Deleted_User said:

What about properties without garages or parking spaces ?

If they don't have parking spaces that's presumably because they're deemed to be for occupation by non-car-owners, so why would they need charging points?

There are plenty of properties (some built in the last 50 years) without any parking space close to the property - my father lives in one - he cannot park his car anywhere near his house - probably 100 yards away

Prepare for blackouts when the national grid cannot cope !

I remember a few years ago - that the grid was almost overwhelmed by demand and it became close to a case for rolling blackouts - we cannot rely on wind or solar and oil/coal fired stations are all but gone - so how do we produce the extra power that electric vehicles will need ?

Last October - the reserves dropped to 500MW which may sound a lot - but its a tiny safety margin for the WHOLE country.

Then there's government plans to ban gas and oil fired heating in new builds - how much more demand will this cause to an already struggling grid, when more people are forced to use electricity for heating their homes ?

Indeed, that scenario alone raises all sorts of issues as to how such households, possibly with numerous cars, will always have the provision to successfully charge their vehicles so they’ll be ready for use at any given point in time.

I visited a Private hospital the other day  and as with many hospitals the car parking facilities for patients was dire. In my search for a parking space I accidentally drove into the staff car-park and it was literally full to the brim. A quadrangle car-park  laid out for about 30 cars  had 55’ish cars packed into it like sardines. How the hell the staff organize themselves god only knows but I do wonder what sort of EV charging systems they’d install that could accommodate such parking chaos.

The amount of infrastructure needing to be installed up and down the country and obstacles to overcome in the next few years is mind-boggling;...but needs must.

 

user1977

Biggus_Dickus said:

Deleted_User said:

user1977 said:

Deleted_User said:

What about properties without garages or parking spaces ?

If they don't have parking spaces that's presumably because they're deemed to be for occupation by non-car-owners, so why would they need charging points?

There are plenty of properties (some built in the last 50 years) without any parking space close to the property - my father lives in one - he cannot park his car anywhere near his house - probably 100 yards away

Prepare for blackouts when the national grid cannot cope !

I remember a few years ago - that the grid was almost overwhelmed by demand and it became close to a case for rolling blackouts - we cannot rely on wind or solar and oil/coal fired stations are all but gone - so how do we produce the extra power that electric vehicles will need ?

Last October - the reserves dropped to 500MW which may sound a lot - but its a tiny safety margin for the WHOLE country.

Then there's government plans to ban gas and oil fired heating in new builds - how much more demand will this cause to an already struggling grid, when more people are forced to use electricity for heating their homes ?

Indeed, that scenario alone raises all sorts of issues as to how such households, possibly with numerous cars, will always have the provision to successfully charge their vehicles so they’ll be ready for use at any given point in time.

What proportion of households are likely to have more than one EV, and be using them in such a way that they need to be charging them simultaneously at home? Even with current ranges, I suspect many EV users can get away with charging intervals more like weekly than daily. Plus there's obviously going to be more and more charging facilities elsewhere.

Biggus_Dickus

user1977 said:

Biggus_Dickus said:

Deleted_User said:

user1977 said:

Deleted_User said:

What about properties without garages or parking spaces ?

If they don't have parking spaces that's presumably because they're deemed to be for occupation by non-car-owners, so why would they need charging points?

There are plenty of properties (some built in the last 50 years) without any parking space close to the property - my father lives in one - he cannot park his car anywhere near his house - probably 100 yards away

Prepare for blackouts when the national grid cannot cope !

I remember a few years ago - that the grid was almost overwhelmed by demand and it became close to a case for rolling blackouts - we cannot rely on wind or solar and oil/coal fired stations are all but gone - so how do we produce the extra power that electric vehicles will need ?

Last October - the reserves dropped to 500MW which may sound a lot - but its a tiny safety margin for the WHOLE country.

Then there's government plans to ban gas and oil fired heating in new builds - how much more demand will this cause to an already struggling grid, when more people are forced to use electricity for heating their homes ?

Indeed, that scenario alone raises all sorts of issues as to how such households, possibly with numerous cars, will always have the provision to successfully charge their vehicles so they’ll be ready for use at any given point in time.

What proportion of households are likely to have more than one EV, and be using them in such a way that they need to be charging them simultaneously at home? Even with current ranges, I suspect many EV users can get away with charging intervals more like weekly than daily. Plus there's obviously going to be more and more charging facilities elsewhere.

I don’t know the answer to that question I’m afraid;...however, my reply was in relation to the  OP’s  post regarding his father’s situation; ..i.e. very distant parking space/s and no personal charging facility.

Totally agree there will obviously need to be more and more charging facilities,...and therein lies the task ahead of us. It’s a mountain to climb,...but climb it we must. 

troffasky

Deleted_User said:

Prepare for blackouts when the national grid cannot cope !

National Grid have already said that this isn't an issue:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/uk-national-grid-can-handle-ev-surge-experts-say

It's not obvious to me what incentive National Grid would have to lie about this, or play it down.

Deleted_User said:

Then there's government plans to ban gas and oil fired heating in new builds - how much more demand will this cause to an already struggling grid, when more people are forced to use electricity for heating their homes ?

As Car_54 said, the slow pace of house building means this is unlikely to be a big issue.

Petriix

There will inevitably need to be some upgrades to the grid infrastructure to accommodate mass EV charging, but the majority of this will be for high powered 'rapid' chargers.

Domestic charging is unlikely to be problematic with all new home EVSEs required to be 'smart' insofar as they can be remotely throttled to manage grid issues. Ultimately bidirectional charging will be a massive benefit to the grid, allowing energy to be stored in EVs and then collectively used as a giant power station when required.

So the concerns are unfounded at best. The switch to EVs is underway and entirely necessary.

[Deleted User]

Petriix said:

There will inevitably need to be some upgrades to the grid infrastructure to accommodate mass EV charging, but the majority of this will be for high powered 'rapid' chargers.

Domestic charging is unlikely to be problematic with all new home EVSEs required to be 'smart' insofar as they can be remotely throttled to manage grid issues. Ultimately bidirectional charging will be a massive benefit to the grid, allowing energy to be stored in EVs and then collectively used as a giant power station when required.

So the concerns are unfounded at best. The switch to EVs is underway and entirely necessary.

Just "some" upgrades eh ?

Like London and other big cities - leaving the rest of the country to fend for itself ?

When you charge an EV overnight - as I imagine most will - has anyone calculated the total extra load on the grid ?

at presumably 13 amps per property

They need to allow for perhaps half of the total number of households charging EVs at the same time - with increasing numbers using fast (higher power) charging than 13amp.

The grid could not cope with that - on top of the extra consumption of electric property heating

Grumpy_chap

Deleted_User said:

has anyone calculated the total extra load on the grid ?

at presumably 13 amps per property

13 amps is only about 2.8 - 3kW charger.

Fast chargers are around 7.2 - 7.5 kW, 32 Amps.

Someone has calculated the load on the grid and says we'll all be OK:
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted

This type of comment around "not enough electricity" may be originating from nay-sayers and then grows into common discussion.  I do wonder whether this type of concern is really one of those things that just needs a shock event to force change.  I rather liken it to companies permitting employees to work from home and various Management comments from various companies I worked at that it could never be done because "internet would never cope" as one of the justifications that was entirely outside the management actually needing to be proactive and make something work as leaders.  Then, between 23rd and 31st March 2020, it all just happened and the internet is not broke.