Economy crash =/= stock market crash?

Type_45

masonic said:

Type_45 said:

Or stay in cash.

That's not risk free itself. You yourself pointed to the plight of Sri Lanka, where their currency is now all but worthless. A few years of high inflation, or even long term exposure to normal levels of inflation, makes quite a dent. The global economic collapse you have predicted may well start with cash devaluing as it did in Sri Lanka.

I've also heard it said that the USD could fail upwards. It's been strong lately, and when it finally meets it's demise it could be at its strongest. I'd need to re-watch that particular interview.

Have you also seen today's 10y treasury yield? Apparently US stocks are not what you want to be in right now. 

masonic

Type_45 said:

masonic said:

Type_45 said:

Or stay in cash.

That's not risk free itself. You yourself pointed to the plight of Sri Lanka, where their currency is now all but worthless. A few years of high inflation, or even long term exposure to normal levels of inflation, makes quite a dent. The global economic collapse you have predicted may well start with cash devaluing as it did in Sri Lanka.

I've also heard it said that the USD could fail upwards. It's been strong lately, and when it finally meets it's demise it could be at its strongest. I'd need to re-watch that particular interview.

Have you also seen today's 10y treasury yield? Apparently US stocks are not what you want to be in right now. 

Yes, early indications are that inflation is finally starting to cool (based on Core PCE), so Treasuries are recovering somewhat, price up, yield down. Nice to see a divergence of bonds and equities, even if it is just for a day or two.

Not sure how the inference is being drawn to US stocks, but on valuation terms we certainly aren't anywhere near bargain territory yet.

Type_45

RE:  gold

It's up ~10.28% YTD.  And this is in the face of rising rates and a strong USD, both of which are usually headwinds for gold.  That bodes well for gold when rates start coming down and currencies run into trouble.

Type_45

Any thoughts on this?:

I asked someone whether to keep cash in a S&S account or buy gold/silver tracking ETCs such as SSLN and SGLN.  His response:

"I wouldn't do it unless it were a very small proportion of my overall net assets. Why? Because there are significant (a) volatility and (b) liquidity risks with ETFs, esp. in our modern market environment. (a) means that these ETFs may not trade the way you are expecting in a major systemic sell-off, and (b) means - even worse - that you may not be able to sell in time if the SHTF."

Type_45

The US will officially be in recession tomorrow.

masonic

Type_45 said:

RE:  gold

It's up ~10.28% YTD.  And this is in the face of rising rates and a strong USD, both of which are usually headwinds for gold.  That bodes well for gold when rates start coming down and currencies run into trouble.

I don't think it has yet met expectations for performance, given what has already happened. There seemed to be an expectation it would have done a lot better, although I hold little regard for commentator expectations. It is possible there is better yet to come, or not.

Type_45 said:

Any thoughts on this?:

I asked someone whether to keep cash in a S&S account or buy gold/silver tracking ETCs such as SSLN and SGLN.  His response:

"I wouldn't do it unless it were a very small proportion of my overall net assets. Why? Because there are significant (a) volatility and (b) liquidity risks with ETFs, esp. in our modern market environment. (a) means that these ETFs may not trade the way you are expecting in a major systemic sell-off, and (b) means - even worse - that you may not be able to sell in time if the SHTF."

It is true that ETFs can trade at a premium or discount to NAV during periods of unusually high volatility. It is a temporary issue that would settle down when markets become orderly again. But it is a risk if you have the intention of making trades at such times. Smaller ETFs are going to be more susceptible, so there is an argument for choosing from among the largest. For a gold ETC, you'll probably still be able to trade more quickly than if you have a stash of sovereigns buried in the garden. Though I did warn a long time ago in your other thread that if you really believe in total financial armageddon, it would be unwise to hold any form of electronic investment.

coastline

Type_45 said:

Any thoughts on this?:

I asked someone whether to keep cash in a S&S account or buy gold/silver tracking ETCs such as SSLN and SGLN.  His response:

"I wouldn't do it unless it were a very small proportion of my overall net assets. Why? Because there are significant (a) volatility and (b) liquidity risks with ETFs, esp. in our modern market environment. (a) means that these ETFs may not trade the way you are expecting in a major systemic sell-off, and (b) means - even worse - that you may not be able to sell in time if the SHTF."

In the 1987 crash the brokers simply took the phones off the hook. Basically it didn't matter what you had you couldn't trade. Even today on this MSE forum and other financial forums you hear posters saying they couldn't get a price on a busy day. That's when markets are moving just 5% or more. All platforms have their limitations although I haven't had this problem with mine.
Pretty understandable you wouldn't load up with much in SSLN and SGLN. Both are fair sized funds SSLN over £400m and SGLN a massive £13bn. Wouldn't have thought there'd be problems trading them and the spread would be reasonable. Do you hear of any major problems from investors regarding these. Might be but I've never heard of any.?
If you want to see historical prices during recent the volatility in February see below..

iShares Physical Gold ETC summary price and performance data – Investors Chronicle

iShares Physical Silver ETC summary price and performance data – Investors Chronicle

ETF's aren't favourites anyway there's even been a recent thread on here. There's issues with the compensation scheme for one. I would have thought sticking with the mainstream iShares and Vanguard camps isn't a bad way of using ETF's. VEVE,VWRL ,ISF to name a few. Have them in a tax wrapper, ISA or SIPP to save any problems. Domicile Ireland , physical replication and UK tax reporting status. See the factsheet for this information.

Type_45

coastline said:

Type_45 said:

Any thoughts on this?:

I asked someone whether to keep cash in a S&S account or buy gold/silver tracking ETCs such as SSLN and SGLN.  His response:

"I wouldn't do it unless it were a very small proportion of my overall net assets. Why? Because there are significant (a) volatility and (b) liquidity risks with ETFs, esp. in our modern market environment. (a) means that these ETFs may not trade the way you are expecting in a major systemic sell-off, and (b) means - even worse - that you may not be able to sell in time if the SHTF."

In the 1987 crash the brokers simply took the phones off the hook. Basically it didn't matter what you had you couldn't trade. Even today on this MSE forum and other financial forums you hear posters saying they couldn't get a price on a busy day. That's when markets are moving just 5% or more. All platforms have their limitations although I haven't had this problem with mine.
Pretty understandable you wouldn't load up with much in SSLN and SGLN. Both are fair sized funds SSLN over £400m and SGLN a massive £13bn. Wouldn't have thought there'd be problems trading them and the spread would be reasonable. Do you hear of any major problems from investors regarding these. Might be but I've never heard of any.?
If you want to see historical prices during recent the volatility in February see below..

iShares Physical Gold ETC summary price and performance data – Investors Chronicle

iShares Physical Silver ETC summary price and performance data – Investors Chronicle

ETF's aren't favourites anyway there's even been a recent thread on here. There's issues with the compensation scheme for one. I would have thought sticking with the mainstream iShares and Vanguard camps isn't a bad way of using ETF's. VEVE,VWRL ,ISF to name a few. Have them in a tax wrapper, ISA or SIPP to save any problems. Domicile Ireland , physical replication and UK tax reporting status. See the factsheet for this information.

No, I've not heard of any problems with SSLN or SGLN. I've only heard people suggesting possible problems.

As far as I am aware, they are very large ETCs (as you alluded to), which are owned by BlackRock, and which claim to represent the amount of physical silver and gold the monetary value of the ETCs represents. 

Any reason that you mentioned that it's "understandable people wouldn't load up much with SSLN/SGLN?

Type_45

masonic said:

Type_45 said:

RE:  gold

It's up ~10.28% YTD.  And this is in the face of rising rates and a strong USD, both of which are usually headwinds for gold.  That bodes well for gold when rates start coming down and currencies run into trouble.

I don't think it has yet met expectations for performance, given what has already happened. There seemed to be an expectation it would have done a lot better, although I hold little regard for commentator expectations. It is possible there is better yet to come, or not.

Type_45 said:

Any thoughts on this?:

I asked someone whether to keep cash in a S&S account or buy gold/silver tracking ETCs such as SSLN and SGLN.  His response:

"I wouldn't do it unless it were a very small proportion of my overall net assets. Why? Because there are significant (a) volatility and (b) liquidity risks with ETFs, esp. in our modern market environment. (a) means that these ETFs may not trade the way you are expecting in a major systemic sell-off, and (b) means - even worse - that you may not be able to sell in time if the SHTF."

It is true that ETFs can trade at a premium or discount to NAV during periods of unusually high volatility. It is a temporary issue that would settle down when markets become orderly again. But it is a risk if you have the intention of making trades at such times. Smaller ETFs are going to be more susceptible, so there is an argument for choosing from among the largest. For a gold ETC, you'll probably still be able to trade more quickly than if you have a stash of sovereigns buried in the garden. Though I did warn a long time ago in your other thread that if you really believe in total financial armageddon, it would be unwise to hold any form of electronic investment.

Yes, I do think people need to have physical assets. At least a portion of your portfolio. And that includes a house/car/bullion/a field/etc.

If you're a person who rents a bedsit and has all your assets in stock (or even worse, crypto) then you don't actually own anything. You own the promise of something. And that promise can disappear. I guess the same is true of cash.

Type_45

Another OK Friday for the markets. Has the much-talked-about "Friday Phenomenon" ever actually been the case?