Bought a £10 ticket for 12 hours, still slapped £100 charge by One Parking Solutions at Llangrannog

Half_way

The British Parking Association, limited are, as above are no more than a private members trade association.

the core purpose of a trade association is to represent and lobby for and on behalf of their members and make it easier for their members to operate and trade .

 Codes of practice and suchlike, are no more than lipstick on a pig, an attempt at trying to get some respectability with the powers that be, and so the DVLA  data tap can continue to flow and fill the trough for all the PPCs to drink from

cryingoutloud

Coupon-mad said:

I think a main appeal point for POPLA will be the horrendous wordiness of those signs, and links to all the articles about this PPC ruining Llangrannog and telling them that the BPA investigated complaints about this place and still the signs are appalling, and some of them don't mention the 10 minutes deadline to pay:

Thanks for everything. I will appeal as advised. May I ask, is it worth sharing with POPLA the picture of the terms and conditions board which I have shared in the opening post, which does indicate the 10 minutes grace period. This is the board, which I hadn't spotted because it wasn't located among the cluster of 4 other signs at the entrance. This image was sent to me by a kind cafe staff from the beach later on. Or does it make my appeal weaker to share it? Is it better to ask through the appeal for the said T&Cs sign and the distance from the 4 signs I did see at the entrance?

silverwhistle

Perhaps a solution for the future would be for one of the affected locals to go out one dark night and cut the cables to the ANPR camera?

D_P_Dance

 it "may be more appropriate that the home authority of the car park operator looks into the matter further".

A few years ago I bought some dodgy, (dangerous) electric stuff from an eBay seller not based in beautiful Berkshire  Reading Trading Stardards  took action and got the product banned from sale in the UK.

Fruitcake

silverwhistle said:

Perhaps a solution for the future would be for one of the affected locals to go out one dark night and cut the cables to the ANPR camera?

That would be a criminal offence, and unless the person concerned is well versed in the dangers of cutting low voltage cables, they could end up being fried and convicted of causing criminal damage.

Locals peacefully picketing the entrance on foot and warning prospective parkers of the dangers before they enter might be more effective. 
Has anyone contacted the Welsh/local Tourist Board and local B & B/hotel owners to warn visitors of the dangers to the wallet/handbag of parking in this location? I know flyers were handed out at the entrance and sent to hostelries in and around Instow in Devon to warn guests about the problems of parking at the Sandhills car park nearby. The campaign eventually convinced the car park owners to kick DSFP out, get rid of the ANPR scameras, and manage it with their own employees on foot.

silverwhistle

Fruitcake said:

silverwhistle said:

Perhaps a solution for the future would be for one of the affected locals to go out one dark night and cut the cables to the ANPR camera?

That would be a criminal offence, and unless the person concerned is well versed in the dangers of cutting low voltage cables, they could end up being fried and convicted of causing criminal damage.

Yes, I should have added a tongue-in-cheek smiley. But certainly local action as you describe must be a potential way forward.

cryingoutloud

How does this popla appeal text look? Please advise for all legal points validity and any technicalities that may go against me in the appeal. If you prefer, please DM me and I can forward you the full word document I have via dropbox or something. As I am a new user, I can't post links here unfortunately. Please feel free to advise if I haven't made a strong enough case here.

Appeal re POPLA Code: [XXX] v One Parking Solution Ltd

Vehicle Registration: [XXX]

POPLA ref: [XXX]

I, the registered keeper of this vehicle, received a letter dated [XXX] acting as a notice

to the registered keeper. My appeal to the operator – One Parking Solution Ltd – was

submitted and acknowledged on [XXX] but subsequently rejected by a letter dated

[XXX].

Parking session: purchased @£10.00 for 12 hours (image attached)

Reason for PCN: Parking session purchased after the grace period expired

Appeal response from One Parking Solutions: “The black and white terms and conditions sign state the grace period provided for motorist to observe and comply with the terms and condition shown”

 

Circumstances on the date of alleged charge:

We arrived with two young children at 11am at Llangrannog beach car park to enjoy the day along the coast and on the beach adjacent to this car park. Having checked the 4 car park signs at the entrance, the 12 hour ticket seemed most suitable to us, should we decide to remain here. We were trying to find out local bus timings to do a coastal walk from Llangrannog and then return to the beach on the bus or not park here and drive elsewhere, from where it would be more convenient to walk. Having found out the bus times from some local people who were parked next to us, we decided to park the car there itself. We then took some time to wear our walking boots, rain wear etc. We paid £10 for the 12 hour parking session at 11:22 which would cover the time from arrival, until 23:00, at the least. We left the car park that same night at 20:10, having nearly 3 hours left on the parking session that we had paid for(according to the tariffs table). Having paid for 12 hours and staying only for 9 hours, we least expected to get a parking charge of £100 for purchasing the ticket 12 minutes too late.

I contend that I, as the keeper, am not liable for the alleged parking charge and wish to appeal against it on the following grounds:

1.       The signage in the car park is highly confusing and misleading

2.       Parking meter issued a ticket for 3 hours less than what was paid – breach of contract by One Parking Solution Ltd

3.       Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice–non-compliance

4.       One Parking Solutions is notorious operator, well known to unfairly charge scores of honest customers

Details:

1.    The signage in the car park is highly confusing and misleading

On entering the car park, one encounters 4 signboards, 1 facing out and 3 boards behind them facing inwards as seen in the below picture (filename “entrance1.jpg”)

These 4 signboards were the ones I saw when I arrived, which I will describe in further detail below.

board1.jpg:

board2-3-4.jpg:

Boards 1..4 in the two images above, have between 20 – 50 lines of text each. On board 3 (middle sign above) which also has the tariffs, there are the following lines of text:

a.    "Purchase ticket on arrival, do not leave site without first purchasing a ticket for parking" (We didn't leave the car park without purchasing the ticket)

b.    "Please see the car park signs for full terms and conditions" - BPA Code of practice Appendix B states “You must always mention that terms and conditions apply and say where drivers can find more details – this will usually be on the other notices in the parking area”

                i.     This sign at the entrance is clearly in breach of BPA code of practice where it fails to state where to find more details.

              ii.     The full terms and conditions were not in this cluster of 4 signs at the entrance. In fact, as can be seen from the image entrance1.jpg, there is clearly sufficient space to have another sign with the full terms and conditions. The only reason not to place the sign with full terms and conditions, in my opinion, must be to confuse the customer in to believing the full terms are contained within this cluster of 4 signs. Could One Parking Solutions clarify why the terms and conditions are not placed with this cluster of 4 signs at the entrance when clearly there is sufficient space?

            iii.     The terms and conditions signs which are located elsewhere aren’t always visible from neither the entrance, nor from every parking bay in the car park. I demonstrate this below:

 

“Black and white terms and conditions sign” mentioned in One Parking Solutions’ rejection of my appeal is barely seen (circled in red) in the image (filename “signsLayout.jpg”) below which was later sent to me by a concerned business owner from Llangrannog, who was keen to help me out.

signsLayout.jpg

-     In above image file, it appears that the terms and conditions signs are placed several meters away from this cluster of signs at the entrance, behind a parking bay. When a car is parked right up close to it, the sign, which already has tiny font size, becomes impossible to read from between the gaps of parked cars.

-     As the sign containing the full terms are not placed at every parking bay, on any particular day, it is not feasible for every person to come across one and read these critical terms and conditions where the said grace period is mentioned in extremely small font.

BPA Code of Conduct:

18.3 Specific parking-terms signage tells drivers what your terms and conditions are, including your parking charges. You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Keep a record of where all the signs are. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand. Signs showing your detailed terms and conditions must be at least 450mm x 450mm.

-     As seen in the below image (filename “terms.jpg” which was also sent later to me by the same concerned business owner from Llangrannog), the 10 minute grace period is hidden in the middle of the terms in very small font.

-     Welsh language and English language terms are being continuously interleaved, making it even harder to locate the full set of terms for anyone who only speaks one of the languages. This contravenes the guidance of making it “easy to see, read and understand”

-     By locating this sign several meters from the entrance, in the small size board, right up by the backs of cars, at a height where any ordinary SUV could block them, makes it inconspicuous and illegible

-     There are clearly not enough of these around the car park given the number of parking bays that all drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle

-     Can OPS confirm - the size of this font and based on the location, whether they can be read from one car length away, which is where one would be standing when cars or SUVs are parked up against this sign? Can these signs be read from every parking bay, as they aren’t located at the entrance?

terms.jpg:

2.    Parking meter issued a ticket for 3 hours less than what was paid – breach of contract by One Parking Solution Ltd

parkingSessionPrintout.jpg:

The parking session ticket that was issued by the meter (above filename “parkingSessionPrinout.jpg”), despite paying £10 for 12 hours as per the tariff board, the ticket has been wrongly issued only until 20:00 hours (instead of 23:22). One Parking Solution’s response to this was “The signs on site state that there are different rates from 20:00 until 08:00. After 20:00 a new parking session must be purchased.” Since the tariff clearly states (filename “board2-3-4.jpg”) that one can pay £10 for a 12 hour period of stay, regardless of whether the tariff changes in the intervening period, the correct expiry date should have been printed on the ticket. There is no signage to indicate that one has to come back at 20:00 hours to extend the stay, despite having paid for a period well beyond 20:00 hours.

Quoting Legislation www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/69/enacted
Contract terms that may have different meanings

“(1) If a term in a consumer contract, or a consumer notice, could have different meanings, the meaning that is most favourable to the consumer is to prevail.”

One Parking Solution may claim that the change of tariff means that automatically one has to buy a new session at 20:00 hours. However, this clashes with the tariffs which clearly state that a 12 hour session costs £10. Thus I am in my right to conclude that I had a parking session paid for until 23:22 hours not 20:00 hours.

One Parking Solution has breached the contract by issuing me a ticket for 3 hours shorter than the duration I had paid for, thus issuing a PCN on top of this is unfair.

 

3.    Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice–non-compliance

Quoting from BPA Website www.britishparking.co.uk/News/good-car-parking-practice-includes-grace-periods 

Kelvin Reynolds, BPA Director of Corporate Affairs says there is a difference between ‘grace’ periods and ‘observation’ periods in parking and that good practice allows for this.

“An observation period is the time when an enforcement officer should be able to determine what the motorist intends to do once in the car park.  Our guidance specifically says that there must be sufficient time for the motorist to park their car, observe the signs, decide whether they want to comply with the operator’s conditions and either drive away or pay for a ticket”

“No time limit is specified. This is because it might take one person five minutes, but another person 10 minutes depending on various factors, not limited to disability.”

The BPA’s guidance defines the ‘grace period’ as the time allowed after permitted or paid-for parking has expired but before any kind of enforcement takes place.

Read with BPA’s Code of Conduct on Grace Periods:

13.2 If the parking location is one where parking is normally permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable grace period in addition to the parking event before enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace period must be a minimum of 10 minutes

There is a court case, NCP v HMRC, which says that a parking contract starts at the time the motorist pays, not when they first drive into the car park. www.taxjournal.com/articles/national-car-parks-v-hmrc

It is therefore argued that time we took decide this was the right car park for us to use and pay for the session is not an unreasonable grace period, given:

a.    BPA’s guidance clearly states that the grace periods should only be a minimum of 10 minutes but in no circumstances does it state it should be limited to 10 minutes. As clarified by Kelvin Reynolds, no time limit is specified for the initial “Observation Period”

b.    We paid £10 for a 12 hour session in order to cover way more than the period we actually stayed in the car park which was, as captured by ANPR a total of 9 hours and 10 minutes. Combined with the allowance by the BPA for a flexible “Observation period”, given a ticket was purchased covering the entire stay, there is no breach of contract from us, as alleged by One Parking Solutions.

 

4.    One Parking Solutions is notorious operator, well known to unfairly charge scores of honest customers

One parking solutions has become notorious in this little tourist town for unfairly targeting honest law abiding citizens for several years now, which has been covered by local and national media. To an extent that 138 of the 362 reviews on tripadvisor (a popular tourism review website), about this beach are complaining about being fined by this car park operator as can be witnessed here: www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g1118313-d7020471-Reviews-Llangrannog_Beach-Llangrannog_Ceredigion_Wales.html#REVIEWS

Just a small selection of media headlines are mentioned here to show how this company is blighting honest, people’s lives: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49883876 

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/llangrannog-parking-car-park-fine-16999213 

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/llangrannog-car-park-fine-beach-20537396 

Fruitcake

I have only skim read this, but you have used the word "fined", so that needs to be changed.

If you haven't already mentioned it, I would suggest you use terms like, "predatory tactics" where you highlight the number of people who have been issued with a PCN..
For this number of charges to be issued, this must be considered a "hotspot", a problem site, since the number of charges issued is excessive and disproportionate compared with other sites.

There is obviously something wrong with the site, the setup, and the BPSA were made aware of this some time ago, made recommendations to the operator, but these have been ignored.

The BPA make much about driving up standards, but the opposite is happening here.

cryingoutloud

cryingoutloud said:

How does this popla appeal text look? Please advise for all legal points validity and any technicalities that may go against me in the appeal. If you prefer, please DM me and I can forward you the full word document I have via dropbox or something. As I am a new user, I can't post links here unfortunately. Please feel free to advise if I haven't made a strong enough case here.

Appeal re POPLA Code: [XXX] v One Parking Solution Ltd

Vehicle Registration: [XXX]

POPLA ref: [XXX]

I, the registered keeper of this vehicle, received a letter dated [XXX] acting as a notice

to the registered keeper. My appeal to the operator – One Parking Solution Ltd – was

submitted and acknowledged on [XXX] but subsequently rejected by a letter dated

[XXX].

Parking session: purchased @£10.00 for 12 hours (image attached)

Reason for PCN: Parking session purchased after the grace period expired

Appeal response from One Parking Solutions: “The black and white terms and conditions sign state the grace period provided for motorist to observe and comply with the terms and condition shown”

 

Circumstances on the date of alleged charge:

We arrived with two young children at 11am at Llangrannog beach car park to enjoy the day along the coast and on the beach adjacent to this car park. Having checked the 4 car park signs at the entrance, the 12 hour ticket seemed most suitable to us, should we decide to remain here. We were trying to find out local bus timings to do a coastal walk from Llangrannog and then return to the beach on the bus or not park here and drive elsewhere, from where it would be more convenient to walk. Having found out the bus times from some local people who were parked next to us, we decided to park the car there itself. We then took some time to wear our walking boots, rain wear etc. We paid £10 for the 12 hour parking session at 11:22 which would cover the time from arrival, until 23:00, at the least. We left the car park that same night at 20:10, having nearly 3 hours left on the parking session that we had paid for(according to the tariffs table). Having paid for 12 hours and staying only for 9 hours, we least expected to get a parking charge of £100 for purchasing the ticket 12 minutes too late.

I contend that I, as the keeper, am not liable for the alleged parking charge and wish to appeal against it on the following grounds:

1.       The signage in the car park is highly confusing and misleading

2.       Parking meter issued a ticket for 3 hours less than what was paid – breach of contract by One Parking Solution Ltd

3.       Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice–non-compliance

4.       One Parking Solutions is notorious operator, well known to unfairly charge scores of honest customers

Details:

1.    The signage in the car park is highly confusing and misleading

On entering the car park, one encounters 4 signboards, 1 facing out and 3 boards behind them facing inwards as seen in the below picture (filename “entrance1.jpg”)

These 4 signboards were the ones I saw when I arrived, which I will describe in further detail below.

board1.jpg:

board2-3-4.jpg:

Boards 1..4 in the two images above, have between 20 – 50 lines of text each. On board 3 (middle sign above) which also has the tariffs, there are the following lines of text:

a.    "Purchase ticket on arrival, do not leave site without first purchasing a ticket for parking" (We didn't leave the car park without purchasing the ticket)

b.    "Please see the car park signs for full terms and conditions" - BPA Code of practice Appendix B states “You must always mention that terms and conditions apply and say where drivers can find more details – this will usually be on the other notices in the parking area”

                i.     This sign at the entrance is clearly in breach of BPA code of practice where it fails to state where to find more details.

              ii.     The full terms and conditions were not in this cluster of 4 signs at the entrance. In fact, as can be seen from the image entrance1.jpg, there is clearly sufficient space to have another sign with the full terms and conditions. The only reason not to place the sign with full terms and conditions, in my opinion, must be to confuse the customer in to believing the full terms are contained within this cluster of 4 signs. Could One Parking Solutions clarify why the terms and conditions are not placed with this cluster of 4 signs at the entrance when clearly there is sufficient space?

            iii.     The terms and conditions signs which are located elsewhere aren’t always visible from neither the entrance, nor from every parking bay in the car park. I demonstrate this below:

 

“Black and white terms and conditions sign” mentioned in One Parking Solutions’ rejection of my appeal is barely seen (circled in red) in the image (filename “signsLayout.jpg”) below which was later sent to me by a concerned business owner from Llangrannog, who was keen to help me out.

signsLayout.jpg

-     In above image file, it appears that the terms and conditions signs are placed several meters away from this cluster of signs at the entrance, behind a parking bay. When a car is parked right up close to it, the sign, which already has tiny font size, becomes impossible to read from between the gaps of parked cars.

-     As the sign containing the full terms are not placed at every parking bay, on any particular day, it is not feasible for every person to come across one and read these critical terms and conditions where the said grace period is mentioned in extremely small font.

BPA Code of Conduct:

18.3 Specific parking-terms signage tells drivers what your terms and conditions are, including your parking charges. You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Keep a record of where all the signs are. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand. Signs showing your detailed terms and conditions must be at least 450mm x 450mm.

-     As seen in the below image (filename “terms.jpg” which was also sent later to me by the same concerned business owner from Llangrannog), the 10 minute grace period is hidden in the middle of the terms in very small font.

-     Welsh language and English language terms are being continuously interleaved, making it even harder to locate the full set of terms for anyone who only speaks one of the languages. This contravenes the guidance of making it “easy to see, read and understand”

-     By locating this sign several meters from the entrance, in the small size board, right up by the backs of cars, at a height where any ordinary SUV could block them, makes it inconspicuous and illegible

-     There are clearly not enough of these around the car park given the number of parking bays that all drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle

-     Can OPS confirm - the size of this font and based on the location, whether they can be read from one car length away, which is where one would be standing when cars or SUVs are parked up against this sign? Can these signs be read from every parking bay, as they aren’t located at the entrance?

terms.jpg:

2.    Parking meter issued a ticket for 3 hours less than what was paid – breach of contract by One Parking Solution Ltd

parkingSessionPrintout.jpg:

The parking session ticket that was issued by the meter (above filename “parkingSessionPrinout.jpg”), despite paying £10 for 12 hours as per the tariff board, the ticket has been wrongly issued only until 20:00 hours (instead of 23:22). One Parking Solution’s response to this was “The signs on site state that there are different rates from 20:00 until 08:00. After 20:00 a new parking session must be purchased.” Since the tariff clearly states (filename “board2-3-4.jpg”) that one can pay £10 for a 12 hour period of stay, regardless of whether the tariff changes in the intervening period, the correct expiry date should have been printed on the ticket. There is no signage to indicate that one has to come back at 20:00 hours to extend the stay, despite having paid for a period well beyond 20:00 hours.

Quoting Legislation www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/69/enacted
Contract terms that may have different meanings

“(1) If a term in a consumer contract, or a consumer notice, could have different meanings, the meaning that is most favourable to the consumer is to prevail.”

One Parking Solution may claim that the change of tariff means that automatically one has to buy a new session at 20:00 hours. However, this clashes with the tariffs which clearly state that a 12 hour session costs £10. Thus I am in my right to conclude that I had a parking session paid for until 23:22 hours not 20:00 hours.

One Parking Solution has breached the contract by issuing me a ticket for 3 hours shorter than the duration I had paid for, thus issuing a PCN on top of this is unfair.

 

3.    Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice–non-compliance

Quoting from BPA Website www.britishparking.co.uk/News/good-car-parking-practice-includes-grace-periods 

Kelvin Reynolds, BPA Director of Corporate Affairs says there is a difference between ‘grace’ periods and ‘observation’ periods in parking and that good practice allows for this.

“An observation period is the time when an enforcement officer should be able to determine what the motorist intends to do once in the car park.  Our guidance specifically says that there must be sufficient time for the motorist to park their car, observe the signs, decide whether they want to comply with the operator’s conditions and either drive away or pay for a ticket”

“No time limit is specified. This is because it might take one person five minutes, but another person 10 minutes depending on various factors, not limited to disability.”

The BPA’s guidance defines the ‘grace period’ as the time allowed after permitted or paid-for parking has expired but before any kind of enforcement takes place.

Read with BPA’s Code of Conduct on Grace Periods:

13.2 If the parking location is one where parking is normally permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable grace period in addition to the parking event before enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace period must be a minimum of 10 minutes

There is a court case, NCP v HMRC, which says that a parking contract starts at the time the motorist pays, not when they first drive into the car park. www.taxjournal.com/articles/national-car-parks-v-hmrc

It is therefore argued that time we took decide this was the right car park for us to use and pay for the session is not an unreasonable grace period, given:

a.    BPA’s guidance clearly states that the grace periods should only be a minimum of 10 minutes but in no circumstances does it state it should be limited to 10 minutes. As clarified by Kelvin Reynolds, no time limit is specified for the initial “Observation Period”

b.    We paid £10 for a 12 hour session in order to cover way more than the period we actually stayed in the car park which was, as captured by ANPR a total of 9 hours and 10 minutes. Combined with the allowance by the BPA for a flexible “Observation period”, given a ticket was purchased covering the entire stay, there is no breach of contract from us, as alleged by One Parking Solutions.

 

4.    One Parking Solutions is notorious operator, well known to unfairly charge scores of honest customers

One parking solutions has become notorious in this little tourist town for unfairly targeting honest law abiding citizens for several years now, which has been covered by local and national media. To an extent that 138 of the 362 reviews on tripadvisor (a popular tourism review website), about this beach are complaining about being fined by this car park operator as can be witnessed here: www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g1118313-d7020471-Reviews-Llangrannog_Beach-Llangrannog_Ceredigion_Wales.html#REVIEWS

Just a small selection of media headlines are mentioned here to show how this company is blighting honest, people’s lives: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49883876 

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/llangrannog-parking-car-park-fine-16999213 

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/llangrannog-car-park-fine-beach-20537396 

To the experts @johnersh, @Coupon-mad, @ParkingMad, @Redx please comment (noted @Fruitcake 's points). Anything else, that'll lose the appeal or anything that needs removing or adding to beef it up. Happy to hear if someone says that I don't have a strong enough appeal, please say so.
 

ParkingMad

This shows the size of the text on OPS' signs compared to the ParkingEye sign in the Beavis case: