Bought a £10 ticket for 12 hours, still slapped £100 charge by One Parking Solutions at Llangrannog

cryingoutloud

I've had Parking Charge Notice from One Parking Solutions for my visit to Llangrannog beach where I used a privately run car park. I was there with my two children who had a lot of beach gear and once I arrived, we took a bit of time getting organised with all the beach gear and stuff. We had entered the car park at 11:12 am. While my family were sorting all the beach stuff out, I went and checked the signs at the parking meter to see the rates etc. I then came back to the car to discuss with my partner and we decided the 12 hour ticket was the best option for us as we were also planning to do a short coastal walk and considering taking the local bus first.

Making all these enquiries and arranging our stuff took us some time and thus I bought the ticket at 11:34. I paid £10 for a 12 hour ticket. What I hadn't realised at the time was that the signs there refer to another sign in a different place in the car park with full terms and conditions where, in very small font, it says we have 10 minutes to purchase a ticket. Had I known this clearly from the signs at the meter, I would have bought the ticket earlier as the 12 hour ticket would have more than covered our whole stay. I have since got pictures of the signs at the car park, including the meter, the terms etc sent over to me by a very kind lady who works at a cafe within the same car park (included at the bottom)
 
In any case we left the car park that evening at 20:10:48, almost 3 hours within the ticket we purchased. Least did we expect to get a £100 charge through the door on our return. I tried to appeal first through OPS appeal procedure which was obviously declined. I now have another 5 or so days left to pay the lower £60 charge or a further 14 days from then to appeal with POPLA. When I originally appealed I thought, surely looking at the length of the ticket we purchased OPS should clear the charge.
My question to experienced people in these forums is, do I have good grounds to appeal with POPLA and lose the option to cut my loses to £60? If so, what template and resources should I refer to when appealing?

I do retain the parking ticket with me, which was issued to end at 20:00 hours and not 23:32 hours based on the 12 hour time I bought the ticket for. When I mentioned this in the OPS ticket appeal, they said that their tariff changes at 20:00 and therefore the ticket is only issued until then and therefore, I ought to have expected this! How is the tariff change at 20:00 hours automatically imply that the 12 hour price I paid will be truncated at 20:00 and I have to buy another ticket 20:00 to continue my stay? I did initially wonder if I was fined for overstaying 10 minutes and 48 seconds after the time on the ticket had expired, but OPS clearly stated it was issued for not buying the ticket within the entry grace period not leaving after the expiry on the ticket that was printed. They also confirmed this over the phone. I don't know if incorrect issue of this ticket also could be mentioned in the appeal. A legal adviser said to me that my confused the grounds of my appeal.

Is there anyway that I could pay the lower £60 fees in protest and then claim it back through small claims courts if my grounds are strong enough (which I think they are)?

This resource I've read gives me the impression that given I did buy a ticket, a hard 10 minute grace period should not apply in my case (britishparking.co.uk/News/good-car-parking-practice-includes-grace-periods). How much will this help my appeal?

3 of the 4 signs at the entrance that I did read (On the Second sign below):
1- "Purchase ticket on arrival, do not leave site without first purchasing a ticket for parking" (We didn't leave without purchasing the ticket)
2- "Please see the car park signs for full terms and conditions" (not specific which sign and where they are)

Sign at the entrance which entrance facing the road.


Terms and conditions sign which isn't at the entrance, which I couldn't see from the entrance. At the bottom of this, in the smallest font are the lines saying "a 10 minute grace period is permitted to purchase a ticket or a parking session"


Here is the layout of the signs at the entrance to the car park where I have numbered the 4 signs placed together while the "Terms and Conditions" which could easily have been placed here, are placed somewhere else at the back (circled).

Redx

Well known SC*m location

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6043478/llangrannog-beach-car-park-pcns-when-prevented-from-paying/p1

No , you won't be able to claim it back if you pay , better to take it to Popla as an appellant and possibly to court as a defendant

Johnersh

It's clearly not reasonable to expect a party to read conflicting sets of terms.

The 10 min wording appears to have been added later to the sign, which may explain why the signs say different things.

Having paid for 12 hrs there is no commercial loss to any technical breach of terms that may have existed. This is not a free car park like beavis it relies on paying custom and the fee was paid.

The 12 hrs parking should say that vehicles with a ticket purchased between. 0800 and 2000 must vacate the carpark by 2000 or purchase an additional ticket for the evening rate. It does not.

Once again, the ANPR starts a timer before the vehicle is parked at all. Paying an all day rate there is no advantage - its not like the system is gamed for a lower fee.

Its hard to see that the claim has any merit. 

Umkomaas

@cryingoutloud - great advice from both above, one from a very experienced poster, the other from a qualified lawyer. Take this to POPLA (all explained in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, third post) using the above points and other elements outlined in the sticky thread. The signage is appalling. It would need a (bilingual  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿) lawyer to be on the spot to accurately advise you of your rights!

rdr

The fact that you can't buy a ticket valid after 20:00 until 20:00 is also an unreasonable trap.
If they tried to pursue you for the time after 20:00 I would think there would be a frustration of contract argument in addition to the rubbish signage.

Umkomaas

The sooner one of these Llangrannog cases gets to court with a decent defence, then see what a Judge makes of everything like the signage and the 12 hour tickets that expire at 8:00pm with little pre-warning, the better. 

Castle

Umkomaas said:

The sooner one of these Llangrannog cases gets to court with a decent defence, then see what a Judge makes of everything like the signage and the 12 hour tickets that expire at 8:00pm with little pre-warning, the better. 

Hopefully a Welsh court with a welsh speaking defendant.

cryingoutloud

rdr said:

The fact that you can't buy a ticket valid after 20:00 until 20:00 is also an unreasonable trap.
If they tried to pursue you for the time after 20:00 I would think there would be a frustration of contract argument in addition to the rubbish signage.

Thanks for your input. By this do you also imply that I should leave this out of my appeal as they haven't pursued me for leaving after 20:00 hours? I was wondering if issuing an invalid ticket in the first place is grounds enough to have the charge cancelled, or is it a distraction to the appeal?

Umkomaas

Get the appeal done. PPCs don't cancel PCNs for any reason - even obvious or common sense ones. They don't earn money doing that. 

cryingoutloud

Umkomaas said:

Get the appeal done. PPCs don't cancel PCNs for any reason - even obvious or common sense ones. They don't earn money doing that. 

Thanks. Yes I do intend appealing to POPLA, but I was just asking if I should leave the technical aspect of the ticket being issued incorrectly till 20:00 hours from that appeal. Does it help or hinder the main appeal regarding the charge being issued for late purchase of ticket?

Coupon-mad

I think a main appeal point for POPLA will be the horrendous wordiness of those signs, and links to all the articles about this PPC ruining Llangrannog and telling them that the BPA investigated complaints about this place and still the signs are appalling, and some of them don't mention the 10 minutes deadline to pay:

http://llangrannogwelfare.org/beachfront-car-park

The Area Manager from the BPA who visited the car park and wrote the report in 2019 was Chas Cannon. Please could you ask anyone who has received an unfair PCN to complain to him, as well as complaining to Ben Lake.
https://www.britishparking.co.uk/area-managers
His email address is chas.c@britishparking.co.uk

@ParkingMad is the expert on this cash cow site (I can see you posted already on this thread):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78330878/#Comment_78330878


Articles in the news recently:
https://www.tivysideadvertiser.co.uk/news/19324480.llangrannog-car-park-users-urged-make-stand/

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/llangrannog-car-park-fine-beach-20537396

https://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/article.cfm?id=135918&headline=Lawyer takes on parking company over ‘unfair’ fines&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2021

https://www.tivysideadvertiser.co.uk/news/19330072.complaints-unjust-parking-fines-llangrannog-pour/


and back in 2019:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/llangrannog-parking-car-park-fine-16999213

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49883876


TripAdvisor warnings:

#https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g1118313-d7020471-r729071297-Llangrannog_Beach-Llangrannog_Ceredigion_Wales.html