Octopus Tracker

Doc_N

KevinG said:

Doc_N said:

KevinG said:

debitcardmayhem said:

I wonder if they(🐙) will bring a better gas tracker soon given that gas rates are going down in January?
I guess the leccy one will be less competetive though 
EDIT
I doubt it will be any better than Dec24 though, I have till March before mine ends.

A "better tracker"? It's a tracker. The rates have been well below the current price cap for a long time. Gas prices are not increasing so hopefully that will continue.

Tracker may have been below the price cap, but it’s certainly not been competitive with some of the better fixes around. Ever since Octopus started tinkering with the conversion formulae it’s become less and less attractive, and it’s now offering pretty poor value. 

Really? The fixes I see are well above the 4.75p I'm paying today.

I have a fix at 4.62p taken out last month with Ecotricity. Octopus couldn’t match that, and it’s almost always below Tracker. I was on Tracker when it was competitive, but the risks now outweigh any possible benefits in my view.

Spoonie_Turtle

oldandwizend said:

  There have been reports of kWh billed for days when no gas was used and, whilst over the month, the data might even out, equally, it may not, particularly if there are major fluctuations day to day!

You accept that possibility in the T&Cs whilst signing up for Tracker though.  They even say they probably won't be able to recalculate even if they manually pull the data (I don't know if they usually do when asked, but they've covered themselves against people expecting it and getting annoyed if they can't/won't).

"2.9.7 If we have not received half hourly meter readings from your Smart Meter at the point of billing, we may need to estimate what proportion of your usage should be allocated to each day, based on industry coefficients (which take into account temperature). We are unlikely to be able to rebill you based on actual consumption if we receive half hourly meter readings after we have issued your bill, therefore you agree to pay your charges based on estimated readings in this scenario. Bills produced on Octopus Tracker could be based on half hourly meter readings, typical consumption patterns, or any combination thereof within the billing period."

https://octopus.energy/policies/smart-tariffs-terms-and-condition/#trackeroctopus

oldandwizend

Spoonie_Turtle said:

oldandwizend said:

  There have been reports of kWh billed for days when no gas was used and, whilst over the month, the data might even out, equally, it may not, particularly if there are major fluctuations day to day!

You accept that possibility in the T&Cs whilst signing up for Tracker though.  They even say they probably won't be able to recalculate even if they manually pull the data (I don't know if they usually do when asked, but they've covered themselves against people expecting it and getting annoyed if they can't/won't).

"2.9.7 If we have not received half hourly meter readings from your Smart Meter at the point of billing, we may need to estimate what proportion of your usage should be allocated to each day, based on industry coefficients (which take into account temperature). We are unlikely to be able to rebill you based on actual consumption if we receive half hourly meter readings after we have issued your bill, therefore you agree to pay your charges based on estimated readings in this scenario. Bills produced on Octopus Tracker could be based on half hourly meter readings, typical consumption patterns, or any combination thereof within the billing period."

https://octopus.energy/policies/smart-tariffs-terms-and-condition/#trackeroctopus

Either I was not clear enough or you misunderstood my post.

I fully accept the Ts&Cs and, in particular, that there may be occasions when cubic metre data is not received from the Smart Meter.  However, in calculating the billed amounts, at some point they have to convert any available cubic meter data, whether estimated or accurate, to kWh and then apply the daily tariff so, obviously, the data in cubic metres on an, at least daily basis must be there. If it would involve a system change to make the data available to customers then say that and say that based on customer requests it would not make financial sense.
As someone who spent a lifetime in computing and computer security and auditing, i always maintained that all data processed by a system must always be available in its raw format; if it is not then you cannot fully audit and confirm the accuracy of any output data!

QrizB

oldandwizend said:

 However, in calculating the billed amounts, at some point they have to convert any available cubic meter data, whether estimated or accurate, to kWh and then apply the daily tariff so, obviously, the data in cubic metres on an, at least daily basis must be there.

Your half-hourly data, in cubic metres, should be available to download from within your account on the Octopus website.

Slinky

The only times I've had averaged Tracker gas bills twice this year are when I've been on holiday and no gas has been used for a week or two. I've used the Data Tracker on the Octoprice app which showed no missing data. The Octopus app showed no missing data either. But they averaged my bill with usage showing on days when we were lying on a beach in the sun. I contacted them about it, but the CS person couldn't or wouldn't understand the point I was making.  I worked it out that I was overcharged by a few pence, but that wasn't really the point.

Bendo

Doc_N said:

KevinG said:

Doc_N said:

KevinG said:

debitcardmayhem said:

I wonder if they(🐙) will bring a better gas tracker soon given that gas rates are going down in January?
I guess the leccy one will be less competetive though 
EDIT
I doubt it will be any better than Dec24 though, I have till March before mine ends.

A "better tracker"? It's a tracker. The rates have been well below the current price cap for a long time. Gas prices are not increasing so hopefully that will continue.

Tracker may have been below the price cap, but it’s certainly not been competitive with some of the better fixes around. Ever since Octopus started tinkering with the conversion formulae it’s become less and less attractive, and it’s now offering pretty poor value. 

Really? The fixes I see are well above the 4.75p I'm paying today.

I have a fix at 4.62p taken out last month with Ecotricity. Octopus couldn’t match that, and it’s almost always below Tracker. I was on Tracker when it was competitive, but the risks now outweigh any possible benefits in my view.

They have been mentioned a lot on here. The headline rate looks good but the SC is astronomical, when I considered a fix with them it was an extra 25 pence a day over tracker gas.

Doc_N

Bendo said:

Doc_N said:

KevinG said:

Doc_N said:

KevinG said:

debitcardmayhem said:

I wonder if they(🐙) will bring a better gas tracker soon given that gas rates are going down in January?
I guess the leccy one will be less competetive though 
EDIT
I doubt it will be any better than Dec24 though, I have till March before mine ends.

A "better tracker"? It's a tracker. The rates have been well below the current price cap for a long time. Gas prices are not increasing so hopefully that will continue.

Tracker may have been below the price cap, but it’s certainly not been competitive with some of the better fixes around. Ever since Octopus started tinkering with the conversion formulae it’s become less and less attractive, and it’s now offering pretty poor value. 

Really? The fixes I see are well above the 4.75p I'm paying today.

I have a fix at 4.62p taken out last month with Ecotricity. Octopus couldn’t match that, and it’s almost always below Tracker. I was on Tracker when it was competitive, but the risks now outweigh any possible benefits in my view.

They have been mentioned a lot on here. The headline rate looks good but the SC is astronomical, when I considered a fix with them it was an extra 25 pence a day over tracker gas.

The SC is higher, certainly. How much that matters depends entirely on your usage. High users will still see substantial savings, as we did.

Bendo

It's not that clear cut, tracker has been averaging around the fix price of Ecotricity in Merseyside. Granted it could change quickly but I'm comfortable with that and decided to ride it out with tracker.

BootsMullery

oldandwizend said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

oldandwizend said:

  There have been reports of kWh billed for days when no gas was used and, whilst over the month, the data might even out, equally, it may not, particularly if there are major fluctuations day to day!

You accept that possibility in the T&Cs whilst signing up for Tracker though.  They even say they probably won't be able to recalculate even if they manually pull the data (I don't know if they usually do when asked, but they've covered themselves against people expecting it and getting annoyed if they can't/won't).

"2.9.7 If we have not received half hourly meter readings from your Smart Meter at the point of billing, we may need to estimate what proportion of your usage should be allocated to each day, based on industry coefficients (which take into account temperature). We are unlikely to be able to rebill you based on actual consumption if we receive half hourly meter readings after we have issued your bill, therefore you agree to pay your charges based on estimated readings in this scenario. Bills produced on Octopus Tracker could be based on half hourly meter readings, typical consumption patterns, or any combination thereof within the billing period."

https://octopus.energy/policies/smart-tariffs-terms-and-condition/#trackeroctopus

Either I was not clear enough or you misunderstood my post.

I fully accept the Ts&Cs and, in particular, that there may be occasions when cubic metre data is not received from the Smart Meter.  However, in calculating the billed amounts, at some point they have to convert any available cubic meter data, whether estimated or accurate, to kWh and then apply the daily tariff so, obviously, the data in cubic metres on an, at least daily basis must be there. If it would involve a system change to make the data available to customers then say that and say that based on customer requests it would not make financial sense.
As someone who spent a lifetime in computing and computer security and auditing, i always maintained that all data processed by a system must always be available in its raw format; if it is not then you cannot fully audit and confirm the accuracy of any output data!

I raised this same point with them several times last year when I was on Tracker but never received a sensible answer.
However, if you go to My Energy in the Online Account, then scroll down past the kWh data to the bottom of the page, there you will find a link for "Take me back to the old consumption page". If you click that link then scroll down to the gas consumption figures, using the Month tab, it does show the last 29/30 days consumption in cubic metres.
But I haven't found how to go back further.

Their "lack of understanding" also extends to the link they have for "View meter reading history" that does not take you to a history of meter readings but to a page of usage history. Their staff cannot understand that readings and usage are different things. However, for your problem, in the online account on the Home page, when you scroll down to the boxes that give the meter and tariff details, you will find the View meter reading history link. When you follow that link for Gas the usage details given are shown in cubic metres for each half hour and show the days total. You can also page back a long way. I don't know how far it goes but I went back to the beginning of July.

When using the cubic metre consumption you have to be aware that, when converting to kWh, the conversion formula includes a figure for Calorific value which is a changing figure. When Octopus first record the kWh, they tend to use a nominal figure for Calorific value but then adjust the calculation using a more accurate average figure by the time it goes on your bill.

Telegraph_Sam

I seem to remember back when I was on Tracker having a battle royale to get them to show the (actual) meter readings at the start and end of the accounting period, something that we take for granted these enlightened days.