WTC'S Closed is UC adviseable 25 March 2021 at 7:40PM edited 25 March 2021 at 8:06PM in Disability money matters 123 replies 4.9K views

Dandytf

Seems HMRC have closed my Working Tax Credits since I changed job recently.
I tried updating new job details online a few weeks lago though it stated no updates can be made until April.
e chat are advising I now need to apply for UC is this correct, 
I'm Disabled with M.S.
thanks

Dandytf

I've since went ahead and applied for UC anyway.
That's me almost 100 pounds less per week until this is settled.

Alice_Holt

Have you hours reduced to below the amount when WTC can be claimed?

Were you in receipt of Housing Benefit ?

"That's me almost 100 pounds less per week until this is settled."
Were you getting the WTC disability element.

Once on UC you can't return to legacy benefits (such as Tax Credits).

I would have suggested getting some advice before claiming universal credit.
I can't see why a change in employment would have ended your WTC claim, as it looks over the whole of the tax year (unless your hours have reduced to below the minimum). 

Dandytf

@Alice_Holt
Thanks
UC HMRC chat has just disconnected, my latest hours have increased since I started my new job 15th March
Yes I was getting WTC Disabled Element -I know this isn't;TM part of UC.
Is it standard for WTC's to close without my knowledge.

edited, u'm mortgaged no housing benefits.
thanks

Alice_Holt

https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-do-tax-credits-work/changes-of-circumstances/other-changes/

"Reporting change of employer

HMRC has the right to require information or evidence to substantiate a claim from a claimant's employer. For this reason any change of employer should always be reported to HMRC even though it may not change the award in any way...

Income changes

There is no legal obligation to report changes in income when they happen, although they must be reported accurately on the annual declaration which is sent to claimants after the end of the tax year.

In 2020/2021, if income goes up by no more than £2,500 ('the disregard') over the level of income for the previous tax year, there is no immediate effect on tax credit entitlement."

I would have thought the only way your WTC might end is if your hours decreased to below 16hrs a week.

Have you actually made the UC claim yet?
Did you check the likely outcome via a benefits calculator?
 https://www.gov.uk/benefits-calculators

If not, I would suggest speaking to a knowledgeable person (rather than an e-chat) at Tax Credits, as you may be worse off under UC.  I'm puzzled why "HMRC have closed my Working Tax Credits since I changed job" if your hours have increased.  Have you had any TC correspondence?

Of course if you made a UC claim yourself, this would close your Tax Credit claim.

Dandytf

Thanks for your response @Alice_Holt
Appreciated, it is almost impossible to find time to call HMRC as I'm returning to Full Time after a few years of Part Time hours.
Benefits Calculators have never shown any UC as it would be reduced as I'll earn 17-18k yearly.
I've logged an online complaint  though maybe I can call them Sat.
Thanks

Spoonie_Turtle

Seeing as you say you've already applied, look into the LCW/RA element of it.  If you receive PIP (or DLA, I assume) you will be able to have a work capability assessment despite working/earning above the equivalent of 16hrs on NMW.  If you are assessed as having LCW you will get the work allowance - an amount of earnings disregarded before they start taking deductions, and as you don't rent that will be £512 per month.  If assessed as having LCWRA, you will have the work allowance and an extra amount in your maximum UC entitlement (currently somewhere above £300 per month).

WCA descriptors are here:
https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/ESA_criteria

CAB guidance filling in the form:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/help-with-your-esa-claim/fill-in-form/

Important points taken from the official WCA handbook (PDF link) https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/925097/wca-handbook.pdf:

In considering each of these activities the concept of repeatedly, reliably and safely must be taken into account. 

If a person can perform a task but is unable to repeat it within a reasonable timescale the person should be considered unable to perform the task. For example, the HCP should consider what would be expected of an individual who did not have an impairment of their ability to mobilise. That is, a ‘normal’ individual would be able to perform this activity within a given time period and repeat that activity again after a reasonable rest period. The duration of the reasonable rest period can then serve as a basis for comparison to gauge the range of what is 'reasonable'. 

The safety of the person must also be considered in each of the activities. If a person is unable to perform an activity or task safely, they must be considered incapable of the task. A task must also be completed reasonably. 

If a person can complete a task but suffers significant pain or distress in doing so, they should be considered incapable of the activity. The activities do not have to be performed without any discomfort or pain. However, if the claimant cannot perform an activity effectively because of pain, they should be considered incapable of performing that activity.  [ -- 'distress' also applies to fatigue/exhaustion]

...

Within the [mobility] descriptors – the concept of repeatedly and reliably is explicit. If the person could not repeat the activity within a reasonable time then they should be considered incapable of this task. The effects of fatigue must be considered.  

...

For each of the mental function, physical and sensory activity areas you must choose only one descriptor, and that should be the descriptor that reflects the claimant's level of functioning most of the time, taking into account such factors as pain, stiffness, fatigue, response to treatment and variability of symptoms  

...

 Approved Health Care Professionals should provide the Decision Maker with medical advice on the most appropriate level of functional ability in each activity area. In doing so they must take into account a number of factors including: 

- Any fluctuations in the medical condition i.e. how the condition changes with time – both within the course of a day and over longer periods.

- The variation of functional ability i.e. how the person's functional ability changes over time and in relation to changes in the underlying medical condition.

- Any pain [ -- or fatigue] which results from performing the activity. 

- The ability to repeat the activity and the timescale in which they can repeat it. 

- The ability to perform the activity safely. 

The approved Health Care Professional's choice of descriptors should reflect what the person is capable of doing for most of the time. In other words, could the person normally carry out the stated activity when called upon to do so? For conditions which vary from day to day a reasonable approach would be to choose the functional descriptors which apply for the majority of the days.

/End.  Emphasis mostly mine, extra comments in [ ] also mine.

Dandytf

@Spoonie_Turtle
thanks, I receive higher rate daily living and standard rate mobility PIP.
mser's have previously mentioned fit note required, which i'de need to re request from Doc's.
Is the work capability assessment during 5 weeks UC application timescales.
Not sure how that could work when I'm working from home for time being.
Lots to read over, though new job is priority next 2-3 weeks before training complete.
quite challenging learning a new job from home, guess this loss of WTC's is an extra challenge.
I did have access to work assessment a year to two ago, which resulted in additional equipment being provided.
i had already found what was proved to be MS Cognitive negative behaviour affecting work.

Thanks MSEr's
until HMRC/UC response

Spoonie_Turtle

Dandytf said:

@Spoonie_Turtle
thanks, I receive higher rate daily living and standard rate mobility PIP.
mser's have previously mentioned fit note required, which i'de need to re request from Doc's.
Is the work capability assessment during 5 weeks UC application timescales.
Not sure how that could work when I'm working from home for time being.
Lots to read over, though new job is priority next 2-3 weeks before training complete.
quite challenging learning a new job from home, guess this loss of WTC's is an extra challenge.
I did have access to work assessment a year to two ago, which resulted in additional equipment being provided.
i had already found what was proved to be MS Cognitive negative behaviour affecting work.

Thanks MSEr's
until HMRC/UC response

Yes you would need a fit note declaring your health condition affecting your ability to work (doesn't mean you *can't* work, just that it affects your ability).

WCA timescales are that they should refer you on day 29 of your claim with an ongoing condition; you'll get a form sent out to fill in - exactly the same as the ESA form referred to in the CAB link - and then at some point after that (no estimable/predictable timescales, it's a bit like PIP in that respect!) you'll be given an appointment for an assessment.  So far assessments are still over the phone.

A2W assessment should be useful evidence, as well as adaptations already made to enable you to work.  All goes in your favour as proof of how your health affects your ability to work.

UC itself is based on income during your AP, so depending on how much and when you get paid you may have a decent first UC payment anyway.  [I am assuming you don't have a partner's income as you've not mentioned it so far but if you do, their income will be taken into account as well of course.]

Dandytf

I'm single home owner.
Not sure why UC calculators point to Zero Entitlement when 17-18K yearly wages are takin into account.
I'ts been a few years since PIP form as recent years have auto renewed and a Tel assessment rather than Atos visit.
I'll read over your and Spoonie Turtles detailed responses this weekend.
Thanks  

Dandytf

Called WTC'S today, as UC app is made, it has to continue.
I've since requested an Advance to at least cover 1 month of WTC's
Hopefully, UC is eligible and I can repay advance over 12 months.
Not ideal by any means 
HMRC  complaint raised anyway.
thanks every reply to this thread.