Elnur Gabarron Heaters

ricoshay74

New to the thread but  have just had these heaters installed with Eco4 grant, first night and costs have shot up! Hoping its a 1st use sort of thing,  but am sending all this fab info to OH to digest. Thank you all

QrizB

It's a shame this thread is over here rather than on the "Energy" forum where all the storage heater nerds hang out.

Elnur HHR storage heaters are no better or worse than the other HHR storage heaters like Dimplex Quantum. They do need dual supplies to work at their best, unlike old box-of-bricks heaters which only needed the switched E7 supply.

If you've got dual supplies, they should work without any fiddling beyond setting your desired temperature.

Scot_39

ricoshay74 said:

New to the thread but  have just had these heaters installed with Eco4 grant, first night and costs have shot up! Hoping its a 1st use sort of thing,  but am sending all this fab info to OH to digest. Thank you all

Hi and welcome to the forum.

All NSH take a reasonable charge on their first use - or even in my old box of bricks manual dial case - turning up the core temperature.

The Elnur HHR model I looked at has many parameters set - and one is the default initial charge - and it's set to 80% - on the top model thats nearly 20kWh - more than you would need I suspect at current temperatures.

But it wont take that the next night - as it's unlikely to deliver 20 kWh at today's sort of temps - even at 21C if left it at that.

Can you confirm the model and then - if not been given a set - download the relevant user manuals from their site here

https://www.elnur-global.com/storage-heaters-electrical-heating-to-save-with-off-peaks-hours/

There are several threads here and users with the Ecombi HHR model for instance - that has some timings and things you might want to tweak.  

Defaults - both room thermostat programming and even charge / off peak and peak overspill control - often don't match your requirements - and the Ecombi HHR series have preset charge timings that you need to match to your meter off peak (whereas the other popular HHR here auto detects the off peak live and charges)

So did the installers ask what tariff you were on - and what your off peak times were - as if not you ought to set those - this is the manual from the Ecombi HHR

For instance here is the English only manual for the Ecombi HHR from a resellers site  

https://www.electricalworld.com/Images/Manuals/Elnur-HHR-User-Manual.pdf

I'd get a hold of the manual for your model and look into it's settings in more detail if its different

And set the programmable thermostat timings to suit your needs. 

See P11 General Settings

For me the defaults 18 night and 21 day are way too high.  .

The St (Storage) target - default 80% - probably what the heater took last night - if those are your models.

It won't on the second night unless you need 80% - as long as you let the adaptive algorithm run (by not setting P06 to zero) - I wonder if any actual users would recommend adjusting - dont remember much debate on it ?

I'd just let them learn and track the seasons.

The P01 - P04 settings need to match - your tariff say E7 off peak times  - you might struggle for all 7 hours in some cases.  

That HHR manual says 0000 to 0700 - is factory set - that wont match everyones GMT E7 timings.  And makes no allowance for meter preset randomising offset as below.

Unlike Quantums these just wont work in dual wired mode out of the box - the timings - as indicated in the manual actually need to match.

If say E7 - do you know the exact times for your meter off peak ?  

Most are told be their suppliers the nominals - Say 0000 to 0700 or 0030 to 0730 GMT - add of course thats hour out for DST currently.  

And old E7 meters could be iirc +/-15min iirc from those times - and smart meters 0-30 min - but most 0-10 - 15 at a push mins from those regional times. 

So right now in DST times if the later of the two above in GMT nominal - 0145 am to 0845 am could be your actual DST off peak times for 15m offset.

Most of the heating season is likely GMT though (late Oct to Mar) - so it might arguably be best to program everything and set the time in GMT - so as when you need the heat most - you can adapt the program in GMT - which will be your actual clock time.  Whatever your happiest with.

As I noted on a quick scan that manual says the devices do not adjust for GMT / BST - so should be OK - but I'd check the sync after GMT DST and DST to GMT just to be sure - that P01-P02 etc still match just in case.

The P06 balance time cap (think daytime supplement heat but at peak rate)  - default 5 - iirc best for most to set to 1 to avoid excessive peak charging - not 0 - as now warns about in text - it disables the charge adaption.  If however you run out of heat - you might want to leave it high.  You shouldn't if they have been sized properly.

St = 80% - note in real world meter units - that could be pushing 15-20 kWh on a larger models - on the larger ecombi 40  0.8 * 24.4 max for E7 7 hours = 19.5kWh.

For typical E7 you should be fine in terms of getting the full 7 hours off peak - and they should last the whole day with ease (if sized correctly) - and they do seem very well respected here by their users.  

But do bear in mind this is just from my potential inspection if suitable for me (im on E10 with 3 charge periods - they can only cope with 2) and what I remember of key points from older threads.

Once you confirm that's your model - or if another - let us know either way - and I am sure actual users can give more advice.  

And any actual users - feel free to comment and rubbish my suggestions above if wrong.

QrizB

Let's just add an @ricoshay74 here, in case they can't find the thread now it's been moved.

The thread used to be on "Techie Stuff" where it wasn't getting much engagement from the Energy folks.

Scot_39

QrizB said:

Let's just add an @ricoshay74 here, in case they can't find the thread now it's been moved.

The thread used to be on "Techie Stuff" where it wasn't getting much engagement from the Energy folks.

Thanks / Sorry @QRizB - thought the quote might be enough.

ricoshay74

Hi
So sorry, i missed the replies here, didn't mean to be rude. 
We have Ecombi HHR EcoHHR heaters. 
I think we have got the charging sorted now, after having quite the challenge with Octopus at to when our night time rate actually applied! So they now charge 0100 to 0700. Then we have then set to heat at 0730 to 0830 , which actually we are going to disable as we are warm enough in the morning anyway. Then 1900 to 2200 at 21 degrees,  which we're going to nudge up as its a bit cool for us.
Balancing element at 0, but going to try it at 1 and review.
Costs are definitely better, altho we occasionally have an overnight spike in consumption which i guess us when there had to discharge more heat the evening before.
Now going to take OH thru all the info above, thank you so much 🙏 

Scot_39

Sadly most cs staff will only know the default timings.

And quote them as do things like Octopus blog pages.

You've gone for 6 hours so would be OK on both say an 0000 to 0700 and 0030 to 0730  gmt examples quoted above even aloowing tge full 30min meter offset preset.

But there are folk who get different timings from other meter installers  - and a couple of old electricity bords supported 2+2+5 in at least a couple of regions so say 2230 0030 and 0230 0730 was one iirc.  And some like sp modified white meter to give afternoon boost outside of old 8.5 ?? hour total overnight.

Sadly unless you have one of the rarer meters you can actually view the set switching times or the switching logs - it comes down to self monitoring.

Also its switch back to gmt time - so you might want to check still match tomorrow.

As above note most meterscstay gmt for alcs and the heater's spec says they do too.

WiserMiser

I assume you're on Economy 7 and are trying to get your NSHs to mimic the E7 times because they only have a single 24h supply?

If so, there's only one reliable way to find out your E7 times and that's to look at your meter and see exactly when it switches over.  The times are determined by your DNO, not Octopus, and even then they may not be exact.

Bear in mind that in some regions there could be a gap, e.g. 2230-0030 and 0230-0730 GMT.

Post a photo of your meter (with serial number and barcodes redacted) and someone will be along to explain.

The use of the balacing element (= peak rate top up that's even more expensive than the single rate) should be avoided as much as possible.  You may occasionally need it if there's an unexpected cold snap, but this should be rare if the NSHs are large enough and correctly programmed.