I believe I have evidence of an estate agent creating fake bids

Lonely_willow

Penguin_ said:

Do agents have to ask for ID when people submit an offer? I certainly didn't provide this when I offered & subsequently bought my house albeit 5 years ago.

Any offers I have made on properties I have had to supply ID. So yes I believe you have to submit ID when making an offer on a house.

Lonely_willow

duggan1 said:

Lonely_willow said:

Just to say I had arranged an appointment with the agent a week prior to show my house extension. I had mentioned covid etc and he said it was fine. After spending time discussing my house renovation with him I said I had wanted to see if a neighbour had bid on my property which he found a little odd. He did mention GDPR and that he could not show me the names. However at the counter after my instance that I did not believe him he showed me the book. He did not seem comfortable at all and quickly said that the bidder who I was in a bidding war with buys lots of properties in the area. This set alarm bells ringing as most property investors would not settle for yields of just over 2%.

IF the other bidder is the same name as the vendor surely this is evidence of a fake bid? Is it legal for a vendor to bid on their own property?

I'd be inclined to let it go to be honest. A particularly vindictive estate agent might make a complaint that you coerced/pressured him into showing you private information on his computer screen, which might mean you were in breach of the Computer Misuse Act.
I would think you wouldn't want the hassle.

He has no evidence that I coerced him into showing me the bidding book. Unless they have microphones in the estate agents?

hazyjo

Lonely_willow said:

teachfast said:

I disagree with almost all the other responses. I think you have legitimate suspicions and you are sensible to enquire about getting to the bottom of the matter. It also sounds like a potentially unscrupulous estate agent has spotted a vulnerability in you and exploited it. 

Whether or not this is standard tactics, if that other bidder does not exist then it is also fraud, which very much is a police matter. 

I think you should continue the enquiries.  I can't help with your question about how but hopefully when one of the other, more knowledgeable, people on these forums climbs down from their high horse they will be able to help you. 

I am going to admit that I am on the autistic spectrum. We are not good liars and cant hold our cards close to our chest. The estate agent totally exploited my vulnerability and pushed the price up for his own gain.

The estate agent exploited a vulnerable person shame on him!

Did the EA know you're on the autistic spectrum? If so, would he know enough about the condition to take advantage? I wouldn't. I presumed you were bipolar like my OH where it's possibly more well known that people often spend over their means or get rather obsessed or focused on things.

Not saying you shouldn't take this further, just that it really doesn't sound like you have any evidence and are perhaps getting a little over-focused on something that will probably be more mentally damaging than just letting it go.

The investor may have been looking for a property to flip rather than rent out. Or perhaps they saw long term potential in the area.

moneysavinghero

duggan1 said:

Lonely_willow said:

Just to say I had arranged an appointment with the agent a week prior to show my house extension. I had mentioned covid etc and he said it was fine. After spending time discussing my house renovation with him I said I had wanted to see if a neighbour had bid on my property which he found a little odd. He did mention GDPR and that he could not show me the names. However at the counter after my instance that I did not believe him he showed me the book. He did not seem comfortable at all and quickly said that the bidder who I was in a bidding war with buys lots of properties in the area. This set alarm bells ringing as most property investors would not settle for yields of just over 2%.

IF the other bidder is the same name as the vendor surely this is evidence of a fake bid? Is it legal for a vendor to bid on their own property?

I'd be inclined to let it go to be honest. A particularly vindictive estate agent might make a complaint that you coerced/pressured him into showing you private information on his computer screen, which might mean you were in breach of the Computer Misuse Act.
I would think you wouldn't want the hassle.

Unlikely any EA would do that - they would be in more doo doo than the OP if they admitted that they showed private information whether pressured or not.

Lonely_willow

hazyjo said:

Lonely_willow said:

teachfast said:

I disagree with almost all the other responses. I think you have legitimate suspicions and you are sensible to enquire about getting to the bottom of the matter. It also sounds like a potentially unscrupulous estate agent has spotted a vulnerability in you and exploited it. 

Whether or not this is standard tactics, if that other bidder does not exist then it is also fraud, which very much is a police matter. 

I think you should continue the enquiries.  I can't help with your question about how but hopefully when one of the other, more knowledgeable, people on these forums climbs down from their high horse they will be able to help you. 

I am going to admit that I am on the autistic spectrum. We are not good liars and cant hold our cards close to our chest. The estate agent totally exploited my vulnerability and pushed the price up for his own gain.

The estate agent exploited a vulnerable person shame on him!

Did the EA know you're on the autistic spectrum? If so, would he know enough about the condition to take advantage? I wouldn't. I presumed you were bipolar like my OH where it's possibly more well known that people often spend over their means or get rather obsessed or focused on things.

Not saying you shouldn't take this further, just that it really doesn't sound like you have any evidence and are perhaps getting a little over-focused on something that will probably be more mentally damaging than just letting it go.

The investor may have been looking for a property to flip rather than rent out. Or perhaps they saw long term potential in the area.

I would probably want to find out if any police/ombudsmen can see the bidding book and then get the ID from the actual other bidder. This would be legal for myself and would probably settle the matter if the agent was able to provide ID of the other bidder and that the name did not match the vendor.

I guess the disadvantage of this is the agent gets !!!!!! off and pays me a visit to my house to cause trouble.

grumiofoundation

Lonely_willow said:

NameUnavailable said:

Auctioneers will often appear to take bids from the floor (or state online bids) to try to drive the price up to get to a reserve price.

This sounds like an example of where the EA should have suggested 'best and final' offers although we know that often means little in practice. Some will bid high to 'win' just to buy themselves more time in making a final decision about a place it seems.

It does sound like you are suffering from buyers remorse. Would an agent do something so underhand that could risk their business for a small amount of extra commission? Unlikely.

I think you need to be careful making accusations and involving the police on such a matter or you could have much bigger issues to deal with!

Surely I would be allowed by law to question if an estate agent had created a fake bid?

I have my suspicions as listed in the first post. I believe the estate agent has to keep on file ID documents of bidders for 6 years. If the police/ombudsman were to investigate they can ask to see these documents. This is allowed under data protection I believe.

There is actual possible evidence on the bidding book of the bidder matching the vendor. I could be wrong of course but what law is broken to see if this is the case? Of course this has the flaw in that if the bidder was to match the vendor the estate agent can easily change it if he is tipped off. This is why it would need to be a surprise visit.

Why don't you report it to the property ombudsman. (Disclaimer- have no knowledge of how property ombudsman works so cannot comment). Edit: But would this actually put your mind at rest or will you continue to worry (based on reddit thread below you are looking at buying again?) If you do report to ombudsman what actual evidence would you provide?  

They may well give agent warning and this may give them an opportunity to 'destroy'/'alter' evidence but I don't see you have any alternative. 


You have suspicions of wrongdoing, you may well be right but the point I, and other posters, have been trying to make is you have no evidence of agent's wrongdoings. 
Focusing on things like how low the potential rental yield would be and the gender of the buyer/seller are not evidence.


Based on this post (from 7 months ago) you are looking at buying a new property? And renting out current property (is that the property discussed in this thread?). 
https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/hussid/stung_by_a_fake_bidding_estate_agent_on_a/ 

Lonely_willow

grumiofoundation said:

Why don't you report it to the property ombudsman. (Disclaimer- have no knowledge of how property ombudsman works so cannot comment). 

They may well give agent warning and this may give them an opportunity to 'destroy'/'alter' evidence but I don't see you have any alternative. 

This basically sums up my dilemma and me reaching out to see if there is any way for the ombudsman to investigate without tipping off the agent so they can alter evidence. If this is not possible then there is no point even contacting the ombudsman as if there is foul play its 100% certain the agent with fair warning will alter his tracks.

Anunnaki

Lonely_willow said:

grumiofoundation said:

Unless agent is paid via a more complex fee system lets assume a percentage fee of 1-3%. Therefore the 32k you paid is worth an extra between £320 and £960 to them (before tax). Is that worth the effort?

The same agent actually sold my house. After it was sold he asked me for a bonus. The agent has a lot to gain by pushing the price up so high,
1) if they ask for a bonus they can argue they deserve one, the bonus could be £2k for example.
2) It helps them gain more customers. The fact I paid so much was probably a factor in why the house a few doors up also chose the same estate agent to sell their house through.
3) It helps drive up prices in the market increasing commission even more

Also the house is a !!!!!! hole. When you compare it to the other house that only cost £14k more than what I paid for mine I would have to spend at least £50k to bring mine up to their same standard including the garden.
This is the reason I find it hard someone who buys lots of properties in the area would buy mine. Where is the investment return on it? Maybe they like to live in lots of houses but it sure does sound suspicious.

OP have glanced through this thread and in my opinion you have absolutely no proof of anything illegal or wrongdoing.

You did not win your house. You bought it at a price you were prepared to pay and was happy about.

Now 2 years later you are seeing houses going for £14k more than you paid for yours?

You have now decided your house is a !!!! hole and now needs £50k of work?  

I would say this is buyers remorse and your actions and comments so far are unjustified. So Sorry!

If I was you I would forget this and concentrate on getting your property up to a standard that you are happy with.

moneysavinghero

Lonely_willow said:

grumiofoundation said:

Why don't you report it to the property ombudsman. (Disclaimer- have no knowledge of how property ombudsman works so cannot comment). 

They may well give agent warning and this may give them an opportunity to 'destroy'/'alter' evidence but I don't see you have any alternative. 

This basically sums up my dilemma and me reaching out to see if there is any way for the ombudsman to investigate without tipping off the agent so they can alter evidence. If this is not possible then there is no point even contacting the ombudsman as if there is foul play its 100% certain the agent with fair warning will alter his tracks.

The ombudsman usually have a requirement that you raise a complaint directly with the EA first and then only submit a complaint to the ombudsman if you don't get an adequate response from the EA. So this is going to give them the heads up to alter anything.

Lonely_willow

moneysavinghero said:

Lonely_willow said:

grumiofoundation said:

Why don't you report it to the property ombudsman. (Disclaimer- have no knowledge of how property ombudsman works so cannot comment). 

They may well give agent warning and this may give them an opportunity to 'destroy'/'alter' evidence but I don't see you have any alternative. 

This basically sums up my dilemma and me reaching out to see if there is any way for the ombudsman to investigate without tipping off the agent so they can alter evidence. If this is not possible then there is no point even contacting the ombudsman as if there is foul play its 100% certain the agent with fair warning will alter his tracks.

The ombudsman usually have a requirement that you raise a complaint directly with the EA first and then only submit a complaint to the ombudsman if you don't get an adequate response from the EA. So this is going to give them the heads up to alter anything.

Ok thats really unfortunate. There needs to be legislation changed to not allow this tipping off. Guess I am all out of luck.