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I believe I have evidence of an estate agent creating fake bids
Lonely_willow
Posts: 34 Forumite
I just want to start of by saying that I bought my house 2 years ago. I believe the estate agent created a fake bidder and I ended up bidding against myself which pushed the winning bid up £32k. I will list the reasons I believed I was fake bid at the time and how I now believe I have evidence I was fake bid but do not want to tip off the agent.
1. When I viewed the house I brought a tape measure to measure to see if I sofa I had would fit. After I won the property the estate agent revealed that they knew that I had wanted the property because of this tape measure.
2. When I was viewing the property I did not really look around it much as I knew I had to have it.
3. When I was viewing the property the estate agent asked me if I had viewed any other properties and I simply replied with "no I have not viewed other properties".
4. I was a cash bidder and everyone else dropped out of the bidding, then this new other cash bidder entered the bidding. I remember asking the estate agent about them and his reply was "he isn't sure what he wants to do with the property". This single new cash bidder pushed me up £32k, I had bid in 2k increments. After I had won the agent told me about my mistake in bidding up in 2k increments and told me I should have told them I needed time to think about it before placing extra bids.
5. When discussing this new cash bidder I revealed on the phone that a previous house I had won was the result of a bidding war against one other person.
What I did not do at the time when I had won the bidding war was calculate how much percent above the asking price I had paid for the property. This was a mistake on my part. I ended up paying 22% above the asking price. A house 2 doors up which was in much better condition than mine sold 1 month after mine but only achieved 8% above asking price. This house was sold via the same estate agent. Another house which sold 3 months previous to mine on the same street only achieved 7% above asking price.
Fast forward almost 2 years and I decided to visit the agent who had sold me my property to get advice on an extension I was doing to see how much value it would add to the property. After he gave me some advice I asked him if I could see the bidding book of my property as I had wanted to see if neighbour of mine had bid on my property. To my surprise he showed me the bidding book. What surprised me was that the other cash "fake" bidder on my house was female. He said to me that she buys lots of properties in the area. What I do not understand is after finding out how much rent was generated from my property the rental yield is just over 2%. So why would a property investor even purchase my property with such poor rental yields and needing serious work done to it.
After I left the estate agent I remembered that the person who I had bought my house from was female. I went and looked at the legal documents to get her name. From my vague memory of seeing the bidding book I believe he just used the owner of the house as the fake bidder.
So I guess I should start by asking is creating fake bids fraudulent activity and is it illegal? The police told me it is a civil mater and that I should complain to the property ombudsman. I remember speaking to them previously and they informed me that they would have to inform the estate agent that there will be an investigation carried out.
Is the only way to catch this estate agent to get a copy the bidding document from them by surprise? If they then see the name of the other bidder is the same as the person who was selling the house the agent would be in trouble? My worry is I do not want the agent tipped off about this before hand as he could alter the bidding book.
1. When I viewed the house I brought a tape measure to measure to see if I sofa I had would fit. After I won the property the estate agent revealed that they knew that I had wanted the property because of this tape measure.
2. When I was viewing the property I did not really look around it much as I knew I had to have it.
3. When I was viewing the property the estate agent asked me if I had viewed any other properties and I simply replied with "no I have not viewed other properties".
4. I was a cash bidder and everyone else dropped out of the bidding, then this new other cash bidder entered the bidding. I remember asking the estate agent about them and his reply was "he isn't sure what he wants to do with the property". This single new cash bidder pushed me up £32k, I had bid in 2k increments. After I had won the agent told me about my mistake in bidding up in 2k increments and told me I should have told them I needed time to think about it before placing extra bids.
5. When discussing this new cash bidder I revealed on the phone that a previous house I had won was the result of a bidding war against one other person.
What I did not do at the time when I had won the bidding war was calculate how much percent above the asking price I had paid for the property. This was a mistake on my part. I ended up paying 22% above the asking price. A house 2 doors up which was in much better condition than mine sold 1 month after mine but only achieved 8% above asking price. This house was sold via the same estate agent. Another house which sold 3 months previous to mine on the same street only achieved 7% above asking price.
Fast forward almost 2 years and I decided to visit the agent who had sold me my property to get advice on an extension I was doing to see how much value it would add to the property. After he gave me some advice I asked him if I could see the bidding book of my property as I had wanted to see if neighbour of mine had bid on my property. To my surprise he showed me the bidding book. What surprised me was that the other cash "fake" bidder on my house was female. He said to me that she buys lots of properties in the area. What I do not understand is after finding out how much rent was generated from my property the rental yield is just over 2%. So why would a property investor even purchase my property with such poor rental yields and needing serious work done to it.
After I left the estate agent I remembered that the person who I had bought my house from was female. I went and looked at the legal documents to get her name. From my vague memory of seeing the bidding book I believe he just used the owner of the house as the fake bidder.
So I guess I should start by asking is creating fake bids fraudulent activity and is it illegal? The police told me it is a civil mater and that I should complain to the property ombudsman. I remember speaking to them previously and they informed me that they would have to inform the estate agent that there will be an investigation carried out.
Is the only way to catch this estate agent to get a copy the bidding document from them by surprise? If they then see the name of the other bidder is the same as the person who was selling the house the agent would be in trouble? My worry is I do not want the agent tipped off about this before hand as he could alter the bidding book.
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Comments
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Simple answer - the vendor wanted you to increase your offer, so you did.
Nobody forced you to, you chose to.
You were happy to pay the price you offered.19 -
It doesn't sound like you have "evidence". You have "suspicions" ...The problem is that you decided to purchase this house for the sum that you offered. People overpay for many reasons - location, urgency of purchase, or - as in your case - just reaaally wanting the house.I can't imagine that stealing private data would be the way to go; if there are reasonable suspicions, then you need to discuss it with the EA and go through their complaints procedure. You can also get advice from their regulatory body. They may be required to turn over their "bidding book", but to whom I wouldn't know.All that said, it wouldn't surprise me at all that an EA was involved in such schemes; but it would surprise me if they were stupid enough to leave a written record of such schemes that inculpates them.7
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If the property ombudsman asks to see the bidding book and also ID documentation for each of the bidders the estate agent has to comply. If this other bidder was a fake bidder how will they get ID documents from someone from their imagination? Is this where they get family and friends passports, drivers licences as cover for the fake bidder?Soot2006 said:It doesn't sound like you have "evidence". You have "suspicions" ...The problem is that you decided to purchase this house for the sum that you offered. People overpay for many reasons - location, urgency of purchase, or - as in your case - just reaaally wanting the house.I can't imagine that stealing private data would be the way to go; if there are reasonable suspicions, then you need to discuss it with the EA and go through their complaints procedure. You can also get advice from their regulatory body. They may be required to turn over their "bidding book", but to whom I wouldn't know.All that said, it wouldn't surprise me at all that an EA was involved in such schemes; but it would surprise me if they were stupid enough to leave a written record of such schemes that inculpates them.0 -
If it's a conspiracy why would the EA openly show you their records. When they had no obligation too. Nor is it any of your business to question other peoples motives as to why they had an interest in this particular property. You have no evidence at all.
Do you regret paying so much for the property? Is that the real issue. You got carried away yourself at the time in the heat of the moment.
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I saw the bidding book 2 years after I won the property. The estate agent will not think I will be clever enough to look at back at the records of the person who purchased my property. If I had of asked to see the bidding book 1 week after I had won the property the estate agent would not have complied I bet.Thrugelmir said:If it's a conspiracy why would the EA openly show you their records. When they had no obligation too. Nor is it any of your business to question other peoples motives as to why they had an interest in this particular property.
Do you regret paying so much for the property? Is that the real issue. You got carried away yourself at the time in the heat of the moment.0 -
you got the house you wanted, you paid the price you thought it was worth paying. end of story.5
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I should also add he didnt just show me the bidding book. At the time he told me the name of the other bidder on the property. I said to him I do not believe him unless I actually saw the screen and kept repeating it. I think he got frustrated and said here come see for yourself.0
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Hardly surprising the EA got frustrated if that was your approach. Has better things to do with their day.Lonely_willow said:I said to him I do not believe him unless I actually saw the screen and kept repeating it. I think he got frustrated and said here come see for yourself.
That's a huge chip on your shoulder.16 -
I thought the person who purchased your property was YOULonely_willow said:The estate agent will not think I will be clever enough to look at back at the records of the person who purchased my property.I am not a cat (But my friend is)6 -
I had to laugh at the 'evidence' in your first 3 points. Good grief!As for the 4th, tenuous at best.As others have suggested, it seems you now feel you over-paid.But no one made you. You had the money.You wanted the house. You were willing oay that price. You bought the house.6
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