I believe I have evidence of an estate agent creating fake bids

Lonely_willow

Penguin_ said:

Lonely_willow said:

hazyjo said:

What is it you hope to achieve?

It's worth what someone is willing to pay. Whether they invented a fake bidder or if the vendor had simply rejected your offer, you decided the house was worth what you paid.

I want to find out if the estate agent will face consequences for potentially creating fake bids. As I have seen the bidding book and I roughly remember the name on the bids below me matching the name of the vendor I feel there is scope for investigation.

Lets picture someone from the property ombudsman walks into the estate agent and asks to see the bidding book. Lets assume the other bidder name matches the vendors name. What does the estate agent tell the financial ombudsman then?

Did they force you to up your bid? No

Did you up your bid because you wanted the house? Yes

I have a mental disorder which caused me to make the mistake. A few months after purchasing the house I got around to doing the sums and released I overpaid. Ok it seems an estate agent is ok to create fake bids. The same is true for ebay etc.

RelievedSheff

This has to be a joke right? Someone with too much time on their hands?

hazyjo

Lonely_willow said:

Penguin_ said:

Lonely_willow said:

hazyjo said:

What is it you hope to achieve?

It's worth what someone is willing to pay. Whether they invented a fake bidder or if the vendor had simply rejected your offer, you decided the house was worth what you paid.

I want to find out if the estate agent will face consequences for potentially creating fake bids. As I have seen the bidding book and I roughly remember the name on the bids below me matching the name of the vendor I feel there is scope for investigation.

Lets picture someone from the property ombudsman walks into the estate agent and asks to see the bidding book. Lets assume the other bidder name matches the vendors name. What does the estate agent tell the financial ombudsman then?

Did they force you to up your bid? No

Did you up your bid because you wanted the house? Yes

I have a mental disorder which caused me to make the mistake. A few months after purchasing the house I got around to doing the sums and released I overpaid. Ok it seems an estate agent is ok to create fake bids. The same is true for ebay etc.

It's not an auction though. Sellers don't automatically accept the highest bid.

SpiderLegs

I’m so loving the thought of the OP going 32k over in 2k increments.
Instead of getting a rollocking, if anything the EA should win estate agent of the year for pulling that one off.

Lonely_willow

SpiderLegs said:

I’m so loving the thought of the OP going 32k over in 2k increments.
Instead of getting a rollocking, if anything the EA should win estate agent of the year for pulling that one off.

Well my side was £2k increments the other side obviously bid higher each time.

Penguin_

Lonely_willow said:

Penguin_ said:

Lonely_willow said:

hazyjo said:

What is it you hope to achieve?

It's worth what someone is willing to pay. Whether they invented a fake bidder or if the vendor had simply rejected your offer, you decided the house was worth what you paid.

I want to find out if the estate agent will face consequences for potentially creating fake bids. As I have seen the bidding book and I roughly remember the name on the bids below me matching the name of the vendor I feel there is scope for investigation.

Lets picture someone from the property ombudsman walks into the estate agent and asks to see the bidding book. Lets assume the other bidder name matches the vendors name. What does the estate agent tell the financial ombudsman then?

Did they force you to up your bid? No

Did you up your bid because you wanted the house? Yes

I have a mental disorder which caused me to make the mistake. A few months after purchasing the house I got around to doing the sums and released I overpaid. Ok it seems an estate agent is ok to create fake bids. The same is true for ebay etc.

I'm sorry, the time for doing the sums was when you were placing your offer.

hazyjo

And yet you prob had 3 months or so after "bidding" to pull out. You didn't have any regrets during that time? Only after?

grumiofoundation

Lonely_willow said:

I just want to start of by saying that I bought my house 2 years ago. I believe the estate agent created a fake bidder and I ended up bidding against myself which pushed the winning bid up £32k. I will list the reasons I believed I was fake bid at the time and how I now believe I have evidence I was fake bid but do not want to tip off the agent.

1. When I viewed the house I brought a tape measure to measure to see if I sofa I had would fit. After I won the property the estate agent revealed that they knew that I had wanted the property because of this tape measure. 
2. When I was viewing the property I did not really look around it much as I knew I had to have it. 
3. When I was viewing the property the estate agent asked me if I had viewed any other properties and I simply replied with "no I have not viewed other properties".
Points 1-3 are evidence you wanted to buy the house (also evidenced by the fact you own the house)
4. I was a cash bidder and everyone else dropped out of the bidding, then this new other cash bidder entered the bidding. I remember asking the estate agent about them and his reply was "he isn't sure what he wants to do with the property". This single new cash bidder pushed me up £32k, I had bid in 2k increments. After I had won the agent told me about my mistake in bidding up in 2k increments and told me I should have told them I needed time to think about it before placing extra bids.
This isn't evidence of the existence or not of bidder. If they did exist agent would have done the same
5. When discussing this new cash bidder I revealed on the phone that a previous house I had won was the result of a bidding war against one other person.
The fact you chose to reveal more info that you needed to isn't evidence of estate agent inventing a bidder

What I did not do at the time when I had won the bidding war was calculate how much percent above the asking price I had paid for the property. This was a mistake on my part. I ended up paying 22% above the asking price. A house 2 doors up which was in much better condition than mine sold 1 month after mine but only achieved 8% above asking price. This house was sold via the same estate agent. Another house which sold 3 months previous to mine on the same street only achieved 7% above asking price.

This is evidence you overpaid (or neighbour underpaid) for house. 

Fast forward almost 2 years and I decided to visit the agent who had sold me my property to get advice on an extension I was doing to see how much value it would add to the property.
Estate agents in my area haven't been letting people just wander into their shops for the last year so strange that you were in the shop. 

After he gave me some advice I asked him if I could see the bidding book of my property as I had wanted to see if neighbour of mine had bid on my property. To my surprise he showed me the bidding book. What surprised me was that the other cash "fake" bidder on my house was female. He said to me that she buys lots of properties in the area.
See below - this is your whole case?

What I do not understand is after finding out how much rent was generated from my property the rental yield is just over 2%. So why would a property investor even purchase my property with such poor rental yields and needing serious work done to it.

Why did you (apparently) overpay by 22% - is it a nice house by any chance?

After I left the estate agent I remembered that the person who I had bought my house from was female. I went and looked at the legal documents to get her name. From my vague memory of seeing the bidding book I believe he just used the owner of the house as the fake bidder.

Chances are more than 1 woman is active in your local property market...

So I guess I should start by asking is creating fake bids fraudulent activity and is it illegal?

I would expect so

The police told me it is a civil mater and that I should complain to the property ombudsman. I remember speaking to them previously and they informed me that they would have to inform the estate agent that there will be an investigation carried out.

As with earlier posts I can't believe you went to the police with your 'evidence'

Is the only way to catch this estate agent to get a copy the bidding document from them by surprise?
How will you do that? Breaking and entering is illegal. 

If they then see the name of the other bidder is the same as the person who was selling the house the agent would be in trouble? My worry is I do not want the agent tipped off about this before hand as he could alter the bidding book.
If he has done this wouldn't he already have destroyed it based on your original convo

Seems to me your case is based on estate agent saying he on the phone, now finding out it was a she.
Possible options -
1) agent misspoke/you misheard
2) agent didn't at this point know gender of buyer and assumed they were a man 
3) female buyer was buying with a  male partner and agent had been dealing with said male.
4) agent made up buyer to drive up price.

Any other options I've missed?

Unless agent is paid via a more complex fee system lets assume a percentage fee of 1-3%. Therefore the 32k you paid is worth an extra between £320 and £960 to them (before tax). Is that worth the effort?

Your other piece of evidence seems to be the fact that the other (alleged fake) bidder was a woman and the vendor was also a woman. I mean when has a woman ever bought a house from another woman? 

Sunsaru

I understand where you're coming from, I really do, but from everything you've said so far it sounds like (to me) like you now realise you got played, paid over the odds and want to blame someone. I may be wrong, everyone else on this thread may be wrong.

 If the EA had done anything illegal he probably wouldn't have shown you the book or peoples names. You said you roughly remember the names being the same. Are you sure? 100%? Because roughly is not 100%. 

By all means kick up a stink and see how far it gets you but I think you'll be even more disappointed at the end of it. 

Lonely_willow

grumiofoundation said:

Unless agent is paid via a more complex fee system lets assume a percentage fee of 1-3%. Therefore the 32k you paid is worth an extra between £320 and £960 to them (before tax). Is that worth the effort?

The same agent actually sold my house. After it was sold he asked me for a bonus. The agent has a lot to gain by pushing the price up so high,
1) if they ask for a bonus they can argue they deserve one, the bonus could be £2k for example.
2) It helps them gain more customers. The fact I paid so much was probably a factor in why the house a few doors up also chose the same estate agent to sell their house through.
3) It helps drive up prices in the market increasing commission even more

Also the house is a !!!!!! hole. When you compare it to the other house that only cost £14k more than what I paid for mine I would have to spend at least £50k to bring mine up to their same standard including the garden.
This is the reason I find it hard someone who buys lots of properties in the area would buy mine. Where is the investment return on it? Maybe they like to live in lots of houses but it sure does sound suspicious.