I believe I have evidence of an estate agent creating fake bids

ssparks2003

I think you have made some fundamental errors in your thinking. 

1. You have not overpaid, you paid exactly what you bid. You may have overbid, however this is your lack of self control that is the cause of this.

2. The "evidence" you have mentioned is mostly non-existent and assumptions based on the fact you had a tape measure with you.

3. You may have seen a name that is similar or the same as somewhere else, but even you don't seem too certain of this.

You are currently making the evidence of the faked moon landings look convincing, unless you have something more than these wild theories I would strongly suggest dropping it as you will only embarrass your self in the long run.

Doozergirl

Lonely_willow said:

Penguin_ said:

Lonely_willow said:

hazyjo said:

What is it you hope to achieve?

It's worth what someone is willing to pay. Whether they invented a fake bidder or if the vendor had simply rejected your offer, you decided the house was worth what you paid.

I want to find out if the estate agent will face consequences for potentially creating fake bids. As I have seen the bidding book and I roughly remember the name on the bids below me matching the name of the vendor I feel there is scope for investigation.

Lets picture someone from the property ombudsman walks into the estate agent and asks to see the bidding book. Lets assume the other bidder name matches the vendors name. What does the estate agent tell the financial ombudsman then?

Did they force you to up your bid? No

Did you up your bid because you wanted the house? Yes

I have a mental disorder which caused me to make the mistake. A few months after purchasing the house I got around to doing the sums and released I overpaid. Ok it seems an estate agent is ok to create fake bids. The same is true for ebay etc.

I don't know what to say to this.  Obviously no one wants someone who is vulnerable to be taken advantage of, but there are good reasons why estate agents need houses to sell for the right price, not overinflated prices.  It's also pretty hard to hoodwink someone into paying too much because of the sheer volume of current and historic property sale information available to people.  

I don't want to gaslight you, but if you believe that you weren't thinking correctly then, what is there to say that you're thinking correctly now?   There might be an element of truth in it, but there are some incredibly spurious claims that you are coming out with too.  

Buyers should have checks and balances in place.   Whenever a mortgage is involved, a surveyor is going to come in and given an assessment of the condition of the property and their own independent valuation of the property as security for lending.   If a house is genuinely overpriced, that is the point at which the mortgage valuation comes back low and the whole sale stands to collapse.  Agents don't want that.  They want an easy ride.  Trying to conclude property deals is often akin herding cats. 

House sales are also slow in our part of the world.  You have a lot of time between offer and completion to change your mind.  It's always available to you.  

Agents, on the whole, want a sale. That means getting the vendor and purchaser to agree, ideally at a price that they are both happy with.  One in three property sales collapse.  They have to try and set them up to succeed.   1% commission of nothing is a very small number.  

I have no doubt that sometimes they'll invent another buyer, but the aim would be to get them up to where the vendor is agreeable (whilst also pressuring the vendor in a downwards direction).  I'll tell you now, it won't go into a bidding book if they don't exist. 

What due diligence did you do or have done for you?  Mortgage valuation?  Independent survey? 

NameUnavailable

Auctioneers will often appear to take bids from the floor (or state online bids) to try to drive the price up to get to a reserve price.

This sounds like an example of where the EA should have suggested 'best and final' offers although we know that often means little in practice. Some will bid high to 'win' just to buy themselves more time in making a final decision about a place it seems.

It does sound like you are suffering from buyers remorse. Would an agent do something so underhand that could risk their business for a small amount of extra commission? Unlikely.

I think you need to be careful making accusations and involving the police on such a matter or you could have much bigger issues to deal with!

Lonely_willow

Doozergirl said:

Lonely_willow said:

Penguin_ said:

Lonely_willow said:

hazyjo said:

What is it you hope to achieve?

It's worth what someone is willing to pay. Whether they invented a fake bidder or if the vendor had simply rejected your offer, you decided the house was worth what you paid.

I want to find out if the estate agent will face consequences for potentially creating fake bids. As I have seen the bidding book and I roughly remember the name on the bids below me matching the name of the vendor I feel there is scope for investigation.

Lets picture someone from the property ombudsman walks into the estate agent and asks to see the bidding book. Lets assume the other bidder name matches the vendors name. What does the estate agent tell the financial ombudsman then?

Did they force you to up your bid? No

Did you up your bid because you wanted the house? Yes

I have a mental disorder which caused me to make the mistake. A few months after purchasing the house I got around to doing the sums and released I overpaid. Ok it seems an estate agent is ok to create fake bids. The same is true for ebay etc.

I don't know what to say to this.  Obviously no one wants someone who is vulnerable to be taken advantage of, but there are good reasons why estate agents need houses to sell for the right price, not overinflated prices.  It's also pretty hard to hoodwink someone into paying too much because of the sheer volume of current and historic property sale information available to people.  

Buyers should have checks and balances in place.   Whenever a mortgage is involved, a surveyor is going to come in and given an assessment of the condition of the property and their own independent valuation of the property as security for lending.   If a house is genuinely overpriced, that is the point at which the mortgage valuation comes back low and the whole sale stands to collapse.  Agents don't want that.  They want an easy ride.  Trying to conclude property deals is often akin herding cats. 

House sales are also slow in our part of the world.  You have a lot of time between offer and completion to change your mind.  It's always available to you.  

Agents, on the whole, want a sale. That means getting the vendor and purchaser to agree, ideally at a price that they are both happy with.  One in three property sales collapse.  They have to try and set them up to succeed.   1% commission of nothing is a very small number.  

What due diligence did you do or have done for you?  Mortgage valuation?  Independent survey?  

I was a cash buyer, I did not need a survey. There was less risk in the estate agents eyes the surveyor would value the properly correctly.

I did get a survey done but the surveyor overvalued the property. He just basically took what I bid on it and subtracted £7k. He did not even really take into account similar property sales on the same street. If he had of done the percentages he would have seen he overvalued the house. These other house sales were within less than 3 months of my purchase.

billy2shots

This isn't a snipe OP but it's difficult to word on the internet do don't take it as such.

Did you find out about your autistic behaviour after buying the house or before?

If you knew how you behave in certain situations should you have been bidding on a house independently?

Lonely_willow

NameUnavailable said:

Auctioneers will often appear to take bids from the floor (or state online bids) to try to drive the price up to get to a reserve price.

This sounds like an example of where the EA should have suggested 'best and final' offers although we know that often means little in practice. Some will bid high to 'win' just to buy themselves more time in making a final decision about a place it seems.

It does sound like you are suffering from buyers remorse. Would an agent do something so underhand that could risk their business for a small amount of extra commission? Unlikely.

I think you need to be careful making accusations and involving the police on such a matter or you could have much bigger issues to deal with!

Surely I would be allowed by law to question if an estate agent had created a fake bid?

I have my suspicions as listed in the first post. I believe the estate agent has to keep on file ID documents of bidders for 6 years. If the police/ombudsman were to investigate they can ask to see these documents. This is allowed under data protection I believe.

There is actual possible evidence on the bidding book of the bidder matching the vendor. I could be wrong of course but what law is broken to see if this is the case? Of course this has the flaw in that if the bidder was to match the vendor the estate agent can easily change it if he is tipped off. This is why it would need to be a surprise visit.

helpyhelper

I asked an estate agent once whether they are allowed to do this, and as I understand it's not ethical but not strictly illegal either. I know it's annoying to think you possibly paid more than you had to, but in the end you were willing to pay that price because (to you) it was worth more. 

Lonely_willow

helpyhelper said:

I asked an estate agent once whether they are allowed to do this, and as I understand it's not ethical but not strictly illegal either. I know it's annoying to think you possibly paid more than you had to, but in the end you were willing to pay that price because (to you) it was worth more. 

If we boil it down it is a lie on the estate agents part to gain financially. How can this not be considered fraudulent?

duggan1

Lonely_willow said:

Just to say I had arranged an appointment with the agent a week prior to show my house extension. I had mentioned covid etc and he said it was fine. After spending time discussing my house renovation with him I said I had wanted to see if a neighbour had bid on my property which he found a little odd. He did mention GDPR and that he could not show me the names. However at the counter after my instance that I did not believe him he showed me the book. He did not seem comfortable at all and quickly said that the bidder who I was in a bidding war with buys lots of properties in the area. This set alarm bells ringing as most property investors would not settle for yields of just over 2%.

IF the other bidder is the same name as the vendor surely this is evidence of a fake bid? Is it legal for a vendor to bid on their own property?

I'd be inclined to let it go to be honest. A particularly vindictive estate agent might make a complaint that you coerced/pressured him into showing you private information on his computer screen, which might mean you were in breach of the Computer Misuse Act.
I would think you wouldn't want the hassle.

Penguin_

Do agents have to ask for ID when people submit an offer? I certainly didn't provide this when I offered & subsequently bought my house albeit 5 years ago.