The DEATH of the hard shoulder

AdrianC

Marvel1 said:

AdrianC said:

Marvel1 said:

EssexExile said:
As for "How many people driving would know what a Smart motorway is" - I would hope most of them, they aren't exactly secrets.

I didn't know what they were until last August (lockdown was eased) driving in England as it was being built.

It's 26 years since the first variable speed limits on the M25, 16 years since the first M42 sections, and 12 years since wider roll-out started...

But, really, all you need to know is how to interpret some very basic signage - especially what a bloody great big red X above a lane means.

Ah, thought it something different.

"Smart motorway" is a blanket term for a range of things, from variable limits, through all-lane-running, dynamic hard shoulder, and fully managed.

It's ALR and DHS that are specifically being objected to here. Yet the feedback to drivers, and the info provided to the control centre, are pretty similar to good ol' variable limits.

Meanwhile, people forget not all motorways are created equal in the first place...
https://goo.gl/maps/Fx1DtGt6EXe8DMz87

williamgriffin

AdrianC said:

Marvel1 said:

AdrianC said:

Marvel1 said:

EssexExile said:
As for "How many people driving would know what a Smart motorway is" - I would hope most of them, they aren't exactly secrets.

I didn't know what they were until last August (lockdown was eased) driving in England as it was being built.

It's 26 years since the first variable speed limits on the M25, 16 years since the first M42 sections, and 12 years since wider roll-out started...

But, really, all you need to know is how to interpret some very basic signage - especially what a bloody great big red X above a lane means.

Ah, thought it something different.

"Smart motorway" is a blanket term for a range of things, from variable limits, through all-lane-running, dynamic hard shoulder, and fully managed.

It's ALR and DHS that are specifically being objected to here. Yet the feedback to drivers, and the info provided to the control centre, are pretty similar to good ol' variable limits.

Meanwhile, people forget not all motorways are created equal in the first place...
https://goo.gl/maps/Fx1DtGt6EXe8DMz87

Is the M6 toll our newest motorway? Built to 1980s standard when opened and wouldn't be allowed today as a non toll road. 

AdrianC

williamgriffin said:

Is the M6 toll our newest motorway? Built to 1980s standard when opened and wouldn't be allowed today as a non toll road. 

Umm, I don't know offhand. I wouldn't have thought so.
There's various bits of A1 have been upgraded to A1(M) since then... I'm sure there's been various other bits and extensions.

Car_54

Mickey666 said:

AdrianC said:

The theory is, of course, that once a disabled vehicle is stationary in L1 of a 4-lane ALR m'way, the control room SHOULD immediately close that lane off, reverting the m'way to normal 3 lane + HS.

Of course, the controllers may not immediately spot the disabled vehicle on the CCTV.

I'm pretty sure the cameras have 'smarts' that will automatically detect a stationary vehicle and alert the controllers.

AFAIK that technology hasn't yet been rolled out beyond a few trial areas.

Norman_Castle

Mickey666 said:

AdrianC said:

The theory is, of course, that once a disabled vehicle is stationary in L1 of a 4-lane ALR m'way, the control room SHOULD immediately close that lane off, reverting the m'way to normal 3 lane + HS.

Of course, the controllers may not immediately spot the disabled vehicle on the CCTV.

I'm pretty sure the cameras have 'smarts' that will automatically detect a stationary vehicle and alert the controllers.

With the cost and effort involved in improving hard shoulders, adding safety areas and the overhead gantries with cameras you'd expect this to be done but I don't think it is. It seems a simple and comparatively small addition.

Without this I wouldn't consider a motorway "smart".

Mickey666

[Deleted User] said:

Mickey666 said:

AdrianC said:

The theory is, of course, that once a disabled vehicle is stationary in L1 of a 4-lane ALR m'way, the control room SHOULD immediately close that lane off, reverting the m'way to normal 3 lane + HS.

Of course, the controllers may not immediately spot the disabled vehicle on the CCTV.

I'm pretty sure the cameras have 'smarts' that will automatically detect a stationary vehicle and alert the controllers.

AFAIK that technology hasn't yet been rolled out beyond a few trial areas.

That would be disappointing considering the technology has been developing for 10-15 years, maybe more.  
All down to money I guess.

Car_54

Mickey666 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Mickey666 said:

AdrianC said:

The theory is, of course, that once a disabled vehicle is stationary in L1 of a 4-lane ALR m'way, the control room SHOULD immediately close that lane off, reverting the m'way to normal 3 lane + HS.

Of course, the controllers may not immediately spot the disabled vehicle on the CCTV.

I'm pretty sure the cameras have 'smarts' that will automatically detect a stationary vehicle and alert the controllers.

AFAIK that technology hasn't yet been rolled out beyond a few trial areas.

That would be disappointing considering the technology has been developing for 10-15 years, maybe more.  
All down to money I guess.

Highways England announced in March last year that it would be inviting tenders for a roll-out across the entire network within 36 months, i.e. by March 2023.

This was just before the Covid lockdown, so I imagine the timescales will have slipped.

Bonniepurple

AdrianC said:

Marvel1 said:

AdrianC said:

Marvel1 said:

EssexExile said:
As for "How many people driving would know what a Smart motorway is" - I would hope most of them, they aren't exactly secrets.

I didn't know what they were until last August (lockdown was eased) driving in England as it was being built.

It's 26 years since the first variable speed limits on the M25, 16 years since the first M42 sections, and 12 years since wider roll-out started...

But, really, all you need to know is how to interpret some very basic signage - especially what a bloody great big red X above a lane means.

Ah, thought it something different.

"Smart motorway" is a blanket term for a range of things, from variable limits, through all-lane-running, dynamic hard shoulder, and fully managed.

It's ALR and DHS that are specifically being objected to here. Yet the feedback to drivers, and the info provided to the control centre, are pretty similar to good ol' variable limits.

Meanwhile, people forget not all motorways are created equal in the first place...
https://goo.gl/maps/Fx1DtGt6EXe8DMz87

Is that J3?  If so, I agree it’s horrible, especially at night.  Used to hate doing that one.

George_Michael

Mickey666 said:

I'm pretty sure the cameras have 'smarts' that will automatically detect a stationary vehicle and alert the controllers.

If/when that finally gets added to all cameras, it will be fine provided that there are never any software glitches or other problems with the cameras or associated computers, something that could never be guaranteed to be the case. 

Mickey666

George_Michael said:

Mickey666 said:

I'm pretty sure the cameras have 'smarts' that will automatically detect a stationary vehicle and alert the controllers.

If/when that finally gets added to all cameras, it will be fine provided that there are never any software glitches or other problems with the cameras or associated computers, something that could never be guaranteed to be the case. 

You're right, it could never be guaranteed, but that doesn't really matter because such systems don't have to be perfect, they just have to be better than a human - which is often not very difficult.
It's a similar thing with self-driving cars.  People get all agitated about how the software is not perfect but seem to forget about all those accidents caused by human drivers failing in some way.  Same with pilot error in aircraft.
Thus, perfection, whilst clearly a desirable goal, is not a fair basis on which to make a comparison with any human-based system.