The DEATH of the hard shoulder

NottinghamKnight

Let's not forget the A38 into Brum from the M6, no barriers and convenient overhead signals to allow the same lane to be used to travel in one direction in the morning and the other in the afternoon. 

BrownTrout

peter_the_piper said:

Smart Motorways! Never was there a more incorrect name for a road.

indeed
why remove an area of safety on a motorway, utter maddness

BrownTrout

NottinghamKnight said:

Let's not forget the A38 into Brum from the M6, no barriers and convenient overhead signals to allow the same lane to be used to travel in one direction in the morning and the other in the afternoon. 

i hate this bit of road!!! and use it often

williamgriffin

fred246 said:

The whole point is that it's not 2 tonnes. You are talking of up to 44 tonnes. That's the weight of lorries that toddle along in lane 1 with their drivers playing with their phones. Those drivers seem happy to drive for miles with only a few feet between them and the lorry in front. Their stopping distances are long. If they hit you that's the end. Curtains for you. The whole reason that motorways are generally safe is that you have all vehicles travelling in the same direction between 50 and 70MPH. Low relative velocities. When you are stationary and vehicles have no way to drive around you it's dangerous. If you break down in the outside lane you won't be hit by a 44 tonne truck because they aren't allowed in that lane.

What about a two lane motorway? 44 tonne is allowed in any lane. 

Tokmon

BrownTrout said:

peter_the_piper said:

Smart Motorways! Never was there a more incorrect name for a road.

indeed
why remove an area of safety on a motorway, utter maddness

Hard Shoulders shouldn't be thought of an "area of safety" considering many people have been killed on the hard shoulder while sitting in their car thinking they were safe.

princeofpounds

Slightly different angle to safety here - are they even providing value for money at all? It seems like there is a green fetish for avoiding motorway widening, so they do this to try to use the available space. But then they end up building loads of lay-bys, gantries, control centres, cabling conduits, random pads for equipment installation etc. It barely seems to take up less space than an extra lane would. Anyone know what the difference in cost actually is? It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future if it's decided any section of smart motorway needs widening anyway.

I've always presumed that this really all about laying the foundations for road-use taxation, or maybe helping autonomous driving if I'm being more charitable. But seems an expensive way to go about things.

wongataa

AdrianC said:

wongataa said:

I've seen broken down vehicles in lane 3 of motorways before.  That is always a live lane so hard shoulder status is irrelevant.  They happen sometimes and people survive just fine so it is possible to avoid incidents people complain about when there is no hard shoulder on the motorways.

I suspect there's an element of "Oooohflippineck... I'm stuck in L3... GET OUT! OVER THE BARRIER!" compared to "Ah, this is the shoulder, so I'll be fine..."

If you are stopped in lane 3 over the barrier is the other carriageway, not the side of the road.  Stopping in lane 3 is much more dangerous than stopping in lane 1 hard shoulder or no hard shoulder.

Car_54

wongataa said:

AdrianC said:

wongataa said:

I've seen broken down vehicles in lane 3 of motorways before.  That is always a live lane so hard shoulder status is irrelevant.  They happen sometimes and people survive just fine so it is possible to avoid incidents people complain about when there is no hard shoulder on the motorways.

I suspect there's an element of "Oooohflippineck... I'm stuck in L3... GET OUT! OVER THE BARRIER!" compared to "Ah, this is the shoulder, so I'll be fine..."

If you are stopped in lane 3 over the barrier is the other carriageway, not the side of the road.  Stopping in lane 3 is much more dangerous than stopping in lane 1 hard shoulder or no hard shoulder.

There may be no barrier. You may be in lane 3 of 4 or 5!

williamgriffin

wongataa said:

AdrianC said:

wongataa said:

I've seen broken down vehicles in lane 3 of motorways before.  That is always a live lane so hard shoulder status is irrelevant.  They happen sometimes and people survive just fine so it is possible to avoid incidents people complain about when there is no hard shoulder on the motorways.

I suspect there's an element of "Oooohflippineck... I'm stuck in L3... GET OUT! OVER THE BARRIER!" compared to "Ah, this is the shoulder, so I'll be fine..."

If you are stopped in lane 3 over the barrier is the other carriageway, not the side of the road.  Stopping in lane 3 is much more dangerous than stopping in lane 1 hard shoulder or no hard shoulder.

In some places there is a double barrier, but I still wouldn't want to be there.  

Mickey666

williamgriffin said:

wongataa said:

AdrianC said:

wongataa said:

I've seen broken down vehicles in lane 3 of motorways before.  That is always a live lane so hard shoulder status is irrelevant.  They happen sometimes and people survive just fine so it is possible to avoid incidents people complain about when there is no hard shoulder on the motorways.

I suspect there's an element of "Oooohflippineck... I'm stuck in L3... GET OUT! OVER THE BARRIER!" compared to "Ah, this is the shoulder, so I'll be fine..."

If you are stopped in lane 3 over the barrier is the other carriageway, not the side of the road.  Stopping in lane 3 is much more dangerous than stopping in lane 1 hard shoulder or no hard shoulder.

In some places there is a double barrier, but I still wouldn't want to be there.  

Yep, me neither - have you seen how far those metal barriers move when hit by a vehicle?   I guess a concrete barrier might be safer but it's still a very scary prospect!

My choice would always be to move onto the hard shoulder/lane1 and get out as quickly as possible and as reasonably far away as possible.  Even a hard shoulder is a dangerous place - I've lost count of the number of times I've seen lorries stray onto the hard shoulder.  Yet I still occasionally see someone on the hard shoulder changing an offside wheel and it always makes me shudder.