The DEATH of the hard shoulder

feolojad

Adriana1985 said:

Even prior to reading the below article, I could not understand how eliminating the hard shoulder is a good thing. I've driven enough around English motorways to know people seldom follow the speed limit, let alone closed lane signals, and not having a hard shoulder is almost a death sentence for someone who has simply broken down without spinning off the road.

Thoughts?

Makes them no different to a dual carriageway which we've had for decades, in fact the thick end of a century without anyone complaining they didn't have a hard shoulder. Speed limits for dual carriageways are the same for motorways, they very rarely have a hard shoulder, often there's only a layby every several miles, not even at the same as the safety reservations on smart motorways. But unlike smart motorways there's zero signs to warn you of a blocked lane.

Ectophile

Supersonos said:

Ectophile said:

There were no automatic warning signs, 

People ignore these anyway as nine times out of ten they warn of a problem that isn't there.

True.  I have driven through mile after mile of warning signs and never worked out what they were supposed to be warning me about.

If it was done right, though, the smart motorways should have red flashing lights over any lane with obstructions, and traffic cameras to prosecute anyone jumping the red light.

Ian1961

Surely before you open something up which carries a risk,you ensure that all aspects are safe to use in case of a failure? You assume that things you buy are safe and proper for correct use ie a hairdrier, but is part of the problem, education of the user in this case. How many people driving would know what a Smart motorway is and what is it's purpose?

EssexExile

Ian1961 said:

Surely before you open something up which carries a risk,you ensure that all aspects are safe to use in case of a failure? You assume that things you buy are safe and proper for correct use ie a hairdrier, but is part of the problem, education of the user in this case. How many people driving would know what a Smart motorway is and what is it's purpose?

Everything carries a risk. Driving 2 ton lumps of metal at each other is risky. As for "How many people driving would know what a Smart motorway is" - I would hope most of them, they aren't exactly secrets.

NottinghamKnight

Motorway may well be smarter than most of the drivers.

wongataa

I've seen broken down vehicles in lane 3 of motorways before.  That is always a live lane so hard shoulder status is irrelevant.  They happen sometimes and people survive just fine so it is possible to avoid incidents people complain about when there is no hard shoulder on the motorways.

Now with a smart motorway if there is an incident on any lane at least the gantry signs can be used to warn people in advance there is a problem ahead and slow them down and close lanes.

AdrianC

wongataa said:

I've seen broken down vehicles in lane 3 of motorways before.  That is always a live lane so hard shoulder status is irrelevant.  They happen sometimes and people survive just fine so it is possible to avoid incidents people complain about when there is no hard shoulder on the motorways.

I suspect there's an element of "Oooohflippineck... I'm stuck in L3... GET OUT! OVER THE BARRIER!" compared to "Ah, this is the shoulder, so I'll be fine..."

Marvel1

EssexExile said:

Ian1961 said:

Surely before you open something up which carries a risk,you ensure that all aspects are safe to use in case of a failure? You assume that things you buy are safe and proper for correct use ie a hairdrier, but is part of the problem, education of the user in this case. How many people driving would know what a Smart motorway is and what is it's purpose?

Everything carries a risk. Driving 2 ton lumps of metal at each other is risky. As for "How many people driving would know what a Smart motorway is" - I would hope most of them, they aren't exactly secrets.

I didn't know what they were until last August (lockdown was eased) driving in England as it was being built.

AdrianC

Marvel1 said:

EssexExile said:
As for "How many people driving would know what a Smart motorway is" - I would hope most of them, they aren't exactly secrets.

I didn't know what they were until last August (lockdown was eased) driving in England as it was being built.

It's 26 years since the first variable speed limits on the M25, 16 years since the first M42 sections, and 12 years since wider roll-out started...

But, really, all you need to know is how to interpret some very basic signage - especially what a bloody great big red X above a lane means.

fred246

The whole point is that it's not 2 tonnes. You are talking of up to 44 tonnes. That's the weight of lorries that toddle along in lane 1 with their drivers playing with their phones. Those drivers seem happy to drive for miles with only a few feet between them and the lorry in front. Their stopping distances are long. If they hit you that's the end. Curtains for you. The whole reason that motorways are generally safe is that you have all vehicles travelling in the same direction between 50 and 70MPH. Low relative velocities. When you are stationary and vehicles have no way to drive around you it's dangerous. If you break down in the outside lane you won't be hit by a 44 tonne truck because they aren't allowed in that lane.