Possible dispute over jointly inherited house

DepositSaver

Sea_Shell said:

xylophone said:

I'm just thinking how could the OP protect the element that has been 'lent' to to the brother?

As has been said, he takes a "first charge" on the property.

This is recorded at the Land Registry just as it is when your mortgagee lends you money to buy a property.

First Charge A legal charge used to secure the main mortgage. A lender with a first legal charge over a property has a first call on any funds available from the sale of the property.

One problem I can forsee with this is what if the property is neglected to the point of adversely affecting its value?


Would you be looking to protect an actual sum, in £££, or a percentage?

Maybe if the above us a risk, a defined amount would be better?   Obviously you wouldn't then benefit from any increase in value!

To be honest, I wouldn't be that bothered about how much money I got back, or even if I got any back at all. I certainly don't care about any increase in value, or even decrease in value.
If I were to lend him some of my half of the proceeds it would be nice to get it back at come point (hence why the first charge seems a good option to me), but as I'm not sure he would ever sell so I probably, meaning I wouldn't get it back for many years,  I wouldn't ever be relying on definitely getting it back before I die.

DepositSaver

He is now saying that the only option he will accept is us owning half the house each, and him being responsible for all the bills, repairs and expenses and he never asks me for any contribution to anything. (He may say that now, but I'm not convinced he would stick to that if for example the boiler breaks and needs replacing and he can't afford to replace it.).  If I don't agree to this he is seeking independent legal advice. He also mentions that this is affecting his mental health worse and he needs it resolved.
I'm not sure there is any point in trying to discuss it with him, I think I could make all the suggestions in the world and he would refuse to listen to them and insist on the one he wants. I think I need to ask him to tell his solicitor that I don't wish to own half the house and see what advice he gives.    

Sea_Shell

Here's a left field idea...if you're really not bothered about the money, but DO NOT want to part own it...

Do a deed of variation and leave your inheritance to a charity!!!

Let them deal with your brother!!

mrschaucer

DepositSaver said:

He is now saying that the only option he will accept is us owning half the house each, and him being responsible for all the bills, repairs and expenses and he never asks me for any contribution to anything. (He may say that now, but I'm not convinced he would stick to that if for example the boiler breaks and needs replacing and he can't afford to replace it.).  If I don't agree to this he is seeking independent legal advice. He also mentions that this is affecting his mental health worse and he needs it resolved.
I'm not sure there is any point in trying to discuss it with him, I think I could make all the suggestions in the world and he would refuse to listen to them and insist on the one he wants. I think I need to ask him to tell his solicitor that I don't wish to own half the house and see what advice he gives.    

For goodness sake!  I would seriously be losing patience.  He cannot insist on your owning half the house each - it doesn't work like that and it has all sorts of potential tax implications for you at the very least.  If you don't want to engage a solicitor to act for you just yet (but it might come to that) then make a formal offer directly to his solicitor yourself in which you state that you are happy for your brother to continue to live in the house as he wishes.  To protect your inheritance and to facilitate this, you will make him a non-interest bearing loan of x thousand pounds, the security for this will be a first charge on the property for that amount, and it will become repayable on sale of the property or when your brother goes into care etc etc.  There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable or mean about that, in fact you are bending over backwards to be charitable.

xylophone

Would it be a case of doing a deed of variation and hope the brother stuck to his word, or would it be that the OP 'gifted' the brother the inheritance at the time of purchase whilst putting a charge over the house simultaneously?

If the parental home were sold and a new property purchased, the OP would have his solicitor draw up a loan agreement for the amount of the loan, setting out the amount/terms on which it was made/repayment/interest or not etc.

He might also wish to insert a clause concerning a requirement for the property to be insured by the brother.

A first charge would then be registered at the Land Registry having the effect set out above.

xylophone

We are now wanting the the solicitor who was going to act for the executor, to administer the estate.

You want him to obtain probate with you both as named executors?

Or you wish him/his firm to be named as executor?

DepositSaver

xylophone said:

We are now wanting the the solicitor who was going to act for the executor, to administer the estate.

You want him to obtain probate with you both as named executors?

Or you wish him/his firm to be named as executor?

Neither, I think. One of the original executors has renounced and the other is deceased,  so as far as I understand whoever deals with the estate now is the administrator? I am too far away to do it and also have a busy full time job and my brother doesn't want to. We are getting the solicitor to act as administrator. 

DepositSaver

mrschaucer said:

DepositSaver said:

He is now saying that the only option he will accept is us owning half the house each, and him being responsible for all the bills, repairs and expenses and he never asks me for any contribution to anything. (He may say that now, but I'm not convinced he would stick to that if for example the boiler breaks and needs replacing and he can't afford to replace it.).  If I don't agree to this he is seeking independent legal advice. He also mentions that this is affecting his mental health worse and he needs it resolved.
I'm not sure there is any point in trying to discuss it with him, I think I could make all the suggestions in the world and he would refuse to listen to them and insist on the one he wants. I think I need to ask him to tell his solicitor that I don't wish to own half the house and see what advice he gives.    

For goodness sake!  I would seriously be losing patience.  He cannot insist on your owning half the house each - it doesn't work like that and it has all sorts of potential tax implications for you at the very least.  If you don't want to engage a solicitor to act for you just yet (but it might come to that) then make a formal offer directly to his solicitor yourself in which you state that you are happy for your brother to continue to live in the house as he wishes.  To protect your inheritance and to facilitate this, you will make him a non-interest bearing loan of x thousand pounds, the security for this will be a first charge on the property for that amount, and it will become repayable on sale of the property or when your brother goes into care etc etc.  There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable or mean about that, in fact you are bending over backwards to be charitable.

I'm the patient one in the family so haven't lost patience just yet! 
Presumably making an offer directly to his solicitor could be done for any other option too? For example a deed of variation giving him a higher percentage of the estate? Or him owning the whole house and me getting the cash and proceeds from the sale of the car? I did already mention both to my brother but he wasn't interested in either of them. 

Savvy_Sue

DepositSaver said:

mrschaucer said:

DepositSaver said:

He is now saying that the only option he will accept is us owning half the house each, and him being responsible for all the bills, repairs and expenses and he never asks me for any contribution to anything. (He may say that now, but I'm not convinced he would stick to that if for example the boiler breaks and needs replacing and he can't afford to replace it.).  If I don't agree to this he is seeking independent legal advice. He also mentions that this is affecting his mental health worse and he needs it resolved.
I'm not sure there is any point in trying to discuss it with him, I think I could make all the suggestions in the world and he would refuse to listen to them and insist on the one he wants. I think I need to ask him to tell his solicitor that I don't wish to own half the house and see what advice he gives.    

For goodness sake!  I would seriously be losing patience.  He cannot insist on your owning half the house each - it doesn't work like that and it has all sorts of potential tax implications for you at the very least.  If you don't want to engage a solicitor to act for you just yet (but it might come to that) then make a formal offer directly to his solicitor yourself in which you state that you are happy for your brother to continue to live in the house as he wishes.  To protect your inheritance and to facilitate this, you will make him a non-interest bearing loan of x thousand pounds, the security for this will be a first charge on the property for that amount, and it will become repayable on sale of the property or when your brother goes into care etc etc.  There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable or mean about that, in fact you are bending over backwards to be charitable.

I'm the patient one in the family so haven't lost patience just yet! 
Presumably making an offer directly to his solicitor could be done for any other option too? For example a deed of variation giving him a higher percentage of the estate? Or him owning the whole house and me getting the cash and proceeds from the sale of the car? I did already mention both to my brother but he wasn't interested in either of them. 

Yes, you can make any suggestion like that. Hopefully he gets a solicitor he'll listen to: at the end of the day, a solicitor will act on the instructions of their client, so if your brother insists on holding out for half a house each, then that's what you'll hear. However, showing that you can make pragmatic proposals might be very helpful. The solicitor will communicate these to your brother, and will at least be able to tell him that you cannot be forced to own half a house!

trix-a-belle

Best of luck depositsaver, i'd have reached the point long ago of telling him to be an adult and stand on his own two feet rather than expect everyone else to look after him that your dad has done for years & hes now expecting from you. You've offered a variety of reasonable options hes just stamped his feet and screamed expecting his own way the whole way through.