Possible dispute over jointly inherited house

DepositSaver

trix-a-belle said:

Best of luck depositsaver, i'd have reached the point long ago of telling him to be an adult and stand on his own two feet rather than expect everyone else to look after him that your dad has done for years & hes now expecting from you. You've offered a variety of reasonable options hes just stamped his feet and screamed expecting his own way the whole way through.

Thank you.
I've just asked him whether he definitely won't consider any other options, even options that allowed him to own the whole house without buying me out. He asked how, then told me that if I suggest he own the house and I get everything else he won't accept that as its not fair at all. He wouldn't explain why its unfair, even and after I pointed out its only unfair to me so if I agree to it its fine, and now says all discussions need to go through his solicitor. 

DepositSaver

Savvy_Sue said:

DepositSaver said:

mrschaucer said:

DepositSaver said:

He is now saying that the only option he will accept is us owning half the house each, and him being responsible for all the bills, repairs and expenses and he never asks me for any contribution to anything. (He may say that now, but I'm not convinced he would stick to that if for example the boiler breaks and needs replacing and he can't afford to replace it.).  If I don't agree to this he is seeking independent legal advice. He also mentions that this is affecting his mental health worse and he needs it resolved.
I'm not sure there is any point in trying to discuss it with him, I think I could make all the suggestions in the world and he would refuse to listen to them and insist on the one he wants. I think I need to ask him to tell his solicitor that I don't wish to own half the house and see what advice he gives.    

For goodness sake!  I would seriously be losing patience.  He cannot insist on your owning half the house each - it doesn't work like that and it has all sorts of potential tax implications for you at the very least.  If you don't want to engage a solicitor to act for you just yet (but it might come to that) then make a formal offer directly to his solicitor yourself in which you state that you are happy for your brother to continue to live in the house as he wishes.  To protect your inheritance and to facilitate this, you will make him a non-interest bearing loan of x thousand pounds, the security for this will be a first charge on the property for that amount, and it will become repayable on sale of the property or when your brother goes into care etc etc.  There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable or mean about that, in fact you are bending over backwards to be charitable.

I'm the patient one in the family so haven't lost patience just yet! 
Presumably making an offer directly to his solicitor could be done for any other option too? For example a deed of variation giving him a higher percentage of the estate? Or him owning the whole house and me getting the cash and proceeds from the sale of the car? I did already mention both to my brother but he wasn't interested in either of them. 

Yes, you can make any suggestion like that. Hopefully he gets a solicitor he'll listen to: at the end of the day, a solicitor will act on the instructions of their client, so if your brother insists on holding out for half a house each, then that's what you'll hear. However, showing that you can make pragmatic proposals might be very helpful. The solicitor will communicate these to your brother, and will at least be able to tell him that you cannot be forced to own half a house!

Thank you, this is really helpful to know. Yes if the solicitor can at least explain that I can't be forced to own half a house that will be great!

xylophone

so as far as I understand whoever deals with the estate now is the administrator?

The court issues LoA with will annexed.   Are you saying that this will be to the solicitor rather than you and your brother?

Your brother does understand that you simply don't want to be a joint proprietor of the house?

If he insists that he wants to live in the place, make over your half to him against a first charge on the property? Your solicitor will know how to formalise this with a loan agreement.

This leaves the cash and the car.

Does either of you want to keep the car?

If so, the one who takes the car reduces his share of the cash by half the value of the car?

DepositSaver

xylophone said:

so as far as I understand whoever deals with the estate now is the administrator?

The court issues LoA with will annexed.   Are you saying that this will be to the solicitor rather than you and your brother?

Your brother does understand that you simply don't want to be a joint proprietor of the house?

If he insists that he wants to live in the place, make over your half to him against a first charge on the property? Your solicitor will know how to formalise this with a loan agreement.

This leaves the cash and the car.

Does either of you want to keep the car?

If so, the one who takes the car reduces his share of the cash by half the value of the car?

Yes we want it to be the solicitor rather than us. I am hundreds of miles away with a full time job and my brother doesn't want to do it as he said he wouldn't know where to start with it or what to do. Not to mention that us administering would be rather difficult if he won't have a rational reasonable conversation with me without getting angry.
Yes he is aware I don't want to co‐own the property, I've told him several times. I don't want the car and he hasn't said he does so the car would need to be sold. I'm not sure about having first charge on the current property. It would mean the majority of my half would be tied up in the house and I wouldn't get it for probably many years. At least if we sold, and I lent him a smaller amount against a first charge on a new cheaper property, I'd have a bit more cash now which would be more useful for paying off a chunk of my mortgage. 

trix-a-belle

DepositSaver said:

trix-a-belle said:

Best of luck depositsaver, i'd have reached the point long ago of telling him to be an adult and stand on his own two feet rather than expect everyone else to look after him that your dad has done for years & hes now expecting from you. You've offered a variety of reasonable options hes just stamped his feet and screamed expecting his own way the whole way through.

Thank you.
I've just asked him whether he definitely won't consider any other options, even options that allowed him to own the whole house without buying me out. He asked how, then told me that if I suggest he own the house and I get everything else he won't accept that as its not fair at all. He wouldn't explain why its unfair, even and after I pointed out its only unfair to me so if I agree to it its fine, and now says all discussions need to go through his solicitor. 

If he wants to be a child about it then maybe you need to in a way also.
He says its not fair if you have the car & cash, & he keeps the whole of the house.... why? he can't give you an answer but if you keep asking him why like a broken record then maybe a war of attrition & repetition will work on him & gradually get through as it seems like this is what he may be trying to do to you given his refusal to consider anything other than everything stays as is, end of.
& if he has to be treated like a child, seeing as hes acting like one, have you laid it out in the simplest black and white numbers? Estate comprises of A £, B £, C £ = £X, will therefore states we are each entitled to £X/2 or ideally as close to (lending for a subsequent property for him & first charges is a linked but separate step), giving him the broken down building blocks rather than the possible solutions to lay out and ensure just that base aspect is understood.

Sea_Shell

I agree with the others about writing a formal letter of offer to the solicitors acting as administrators (executors) detailing the various options that you would be happy with.

Then leave it.    You've been more than patient (more than I would have been that's for sure), so you need to put the ball firmly in his court to choose one of YOUR options for resolving this.

If you're still no further forwards in, say, 3 months time, you need to force the sale IMO, even if that means "going legal".

Sea_Shell

Sorry, also, How is he paying for "his" solicitor?

Is this a different one than the one you've instructed to be administrator?

DepositSaver

Sea_Shell said:

Sorry, also, How is he paying for "his" solicitor?

Is this a different one than the one you've instructed to be administrator?

I'm not sure how he is paying for his solicitor. He did mention a few weeks ago that has some savings, but nowhere near enough to buy me out (and presumably not enough to affect his benefits) so I assume out of that. Unless you can get legal aid for this sort of advice. 
Yes it would be a different solicitor - the one who is administering the estate said if we can't agree between us what to to with the house, we'd need to each take independent legal advice. Presumably if we were just wanting advice to both of us on what options are available to enable us to decide the administrator could do that, but if we are actively in disagreement and wanting to do different things he can't advise both of us  thus can't advise either of us. 

DepositSaver

Sea_Shell said:

I agree with the others about writing a formal letter of offer to the solicitors acting as administrators (executors) detailing the various options that you would be happy with.

Then leave it.    You've been more than patient (more than I would have been that's for sure), so you need to put the ball firmly in his court to choose one of YOUR options for resolving this.

If you're still no further forwards in, say, 3 months time, you need to force the sale IMO, even if that means "going legal".

Thank you. I'm going to see what his solicitor says (assuming he actually has one and isn't just bluffing in the hope I will give in) and my brother still refuses to consider any other option I'll formally let his solicitor and I guess the administrating solicitor  know the options I'd be happy with then wait. 

Flugelhorn

DepositSaver said:

Sea_Shell said:

Sorry, also, How is he paying for "his" solicitor?

Is this a different one than the one you've instructed to be administrator?

I'm not sure how he is paying for his solicitor. He did mention a few weeks ago that has some savings, but nowhere near enough to buy me out (and presumably not enough to affect his benefits) so I assume out of that. Unless you can get legal aid for this sort of advice. 
Yes it would be a different solicitor - the one who is administering the estate said if we can't agree between us what to to with the house, we'd need to each take independent legal advice. Presumably if we were just wanting advice to both of us on what options are available to enable us to decide the administrator could do that, but if we are actively in disagreement and wanting to do different things he can't advise both of us  thus can't advise either of us. 

Just make sure he isn't expecting the estate to pay for his solicitor as well, the only one it should fund is the one acting as administrator / executor