Help regarding car I bought on finance, that’s modified.

Grumpy_chap

Mikej92 said:

it’s a 2015 focus diesel, 67k miles.
price was 11250

I'm assuming something a bit special, like the ST-2 / ST-3 (not the ST-line).  I guess that explains the mods.

Mikej92

Grumpy_chap said:

Mikej92 said:

it’s a 2015 focus diesel, 67k miles.
price was 11250

I'm assuming something a bit special, like the ST-2 / ST-3 (not the ST-line).  I guess that explains the mods.

 Yes it’s an st  

beamerguy

Mikej92 said:

nosferatu1001 said:

As I was saying if it's secured loan, the finance co own the vehicle and will not be happy that their assets worth naff all but parts. 

Get onto them. 

Yep, it’s a hp agreement

Do you realise that the finance company is also liable for this. Who is the finance company ?

I helped someone recently who purchased a computer from Curry's  and had loads of faults and before I entered the scene, the retailer sent it back to the maker, not once but many times.
The computer was clearly of un-merchantable quality.  Now, the finance company have taken the computer back, cancelled the agreement and refunded payments.

The law is on your side ...... any product including cars must be of "merchantable quality"

unholyangel

Undervalued said:

unholyangel said:

williamgriffin said:

unholyangel said:

Waiver isn't enforceable. Not having a dpf means the car is unroadworthy and as a dealer, it's illegal to sell a car that's unroadworthy unless you can prove you made them aware that driving the car on UK roads would be illegal. 

Aside from that, nor can you have a waiver that allows the goods to not conform. The only exception would be specifically drawing their attention to a "fault". Which their waiver doesn't do. It doesn't say the dpf is missing, it just says they haven't checked it. 

It is an offence under the Road vehicles (construction and use) regulations (Regulation 61a(3)) to use a vehicle which has been modified in such a way that it no longer complies with the air pollutant emissions standards it was designed to meet. Removal of a DPF will almost invariably contravene these requirements, making the vehicle illegal for road use. The potential penalties for failing to comply with Regulation 61a are fines of up to £1,000 for a car 

Found here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/diesel-particulate-filters-guidance-note/diesel-particulate-filters

Does removing the dpf make it unroadworthy?

Yep. Not every fault/issue makes a car unroadworthy but this would as it's part of the exhaust system and the car is unable to meet its emission classification. 


What's more, if the trader sold it with a new MOT (not clear from info given so far) then they must have known it wasn't there and it's a dodgy MOT or they were the ones who removed it after it passed the MOT. 

If you are saying, for certain, that it would not pass an emission test with the DPF removed then clearly the MOT is dodgy or the DPF was removed after the test. Is that the case?

I don't mean an emissions test. I mean the standard it had to meet to be classified/rated for use on UK roads.

And apologies to OP, i missed quite a few posts so didn't realise you'd already said the car was MOT'd just before you picked it up. 

fisherjim

Mikej92 said:

KeithP said:

A consumer simply cannot sign away their statutory rights.
You are getting good advice on that over on the Consumer Rights board.

Yeah! I seem to be unravelling more and more.

the warranty the dealer also supplied me is now void too, due to the engine having a modification, so If the engine blew up , I would be over £5000 out of pocket.

Just seems to be getting worse for me lol.

Have you reported the dealer to the warranty company that he is an agent for?

He is surely breaking their agreement not you as you bought it in good faith.

Also these warranties are not free, the cost will have been factored in to the price you paid.

I haven't read the other thread but this dealer needs reporting at the very least to Trading Standards.

Mikej92

fisherjim said:

Mikej92 said:

KeithP said:

A consumer simply cannot sign away their statutory rights.
You are getting good advice on that over on the Consumer Rights board.

Yeah! I seem to be unravelling more and more.

the warranty the dealer also supplied me is now void too, due to the engine having a modification, so If the engine blew up , I would be over £5000 out of pocket.

Just seems to be getting worse for me lol.

Have you reported the dealer to the warranty company that he is an agent for?

He is surely breaking their agreement not you as you bought it in good faith.

Also these warranties are not free, the cost will have been factored in to the price you paid.

I haven't read the other thread but this dealer needs reporting at the very least to Trading Standards.

I haven’t been able to do anything for 2 weeks due to the tier 4 lockdown, and pretty much all companies being closed .

 I think I will, he just doesn’t seem to care at all, he’s also telling me not to tell my insurance that it’s had the DPF removed..along with , if I do pay to get it back legally roadworthy, that my car will be ruined.

Takmon

Mikej92 said:

Hi there! I recently purchased a financed car from a dealership( around 4 weeks ago) during the hand over process, he handed me a ‘DPF delete waiver’ (diesel car).

now he went on to tell me that, that the only reason I’d need to sign this is because he recently had a customer, that found out their car had the DPF removed, and rightly so, had the garage pay to fit one back in.

To myself and most people, I didn’t think anything of it, and signed away, not thinking I was possibly this ‘customer’ and he was making a story up..

my car has recently been in for some work, the mechanics done a general inspection, and I also wanted to check over to see if it would need anything for its next mot, a general health check.

upon looking into it, they have found that the car indeed does not have a DPF, so going off his story, I am that ‘recent’ customer.

where do I stand with this? My car was clearly modified prior to sale and he must of knew to give me that story, I’ve looked further into it at my local dealership and they also see a code stored in the ecu, to show it has had ecu tuning.

am I right in saying this car is missold? I’ve been told it would not pass its next mot due to the DPF being deleted.
Any help would be massively appreciated.

So he gave you a written document and even explained it to you orally so you knew exactly what you were agreeing too and you chose to sign it. So it's pretty silly to now change your mind after you have agreed to it and you should have refused to sign it at the time. 

AdrianC

NottinghamKnight said:

AdrianC said:

NottinghamKnight said:

AdrianC said:

NottinghamKnight said:

Can a dealer sell a vehicle that would fail an MOT?

Yes.

Do we know this one would? No. The DPF may well have been modified invisibly.

But the act of making the retail buyer sign a disclaimer in this regard is in itself an admission of guilt.

No, it's not...

Mikej92 said:

Look at the disclaimer he posted in the other thread...

Is that an admission that it's been clocked, too?

Fine, he described it as a stand alone document rather than part of the contract. It still doesn't mean that his rights have been signed away though, may be up to a court to decide of course. They could of course include a clause that they don;t guarantee the car has an engine, seats etc etc doesn't mean that's enforceable.

It's a lot easier to see if the engine or seats are missing than a DPF. Especially if it's been removed in such a way to hide the removal from Mr MOT.

Manxman_in_exile

Mikej92 said:

Just incase he sees, no problem, leave them open then 

Aylesbury_Duck said:

To be honest, that might help you.  He'll see you're getting good advice and aren't prepared to drop it.

I think I'd be emailing him a link to this thread, highlighting the posts that say he can't use such a disclaimer and that he's committing a criminal offence selling an unroadworthy car.

Mikej92

AdrianC said:

NottinghamKnight said:

AdrianC said:

NottinghamKnight said:

AdrianC said:

NottinghamKnight said:

Can a dealer sell a vehicle that would fail an MOT?

Yes.

Do we know this one would? No. The DPF may well have been modified invisibly.

But the act of making the retail buyer sign a disclaimer in this regard is in itself an admission of guilt.

No, it's not...

Mikej92 said:

Look at the disclaimer he posted in the other thread...

Is that an admission that it's been clocked, too?

Fine, he described it as a stand alone document rather than part of the contract. It still doesn't mean that his rights have been signed away though, may be up to a court to decide of course. They could of course include a clause that they don;t guarantee the car has an engine, seats etc etc doesn't mean that's enforceable.

It's a lot easier to see if the engine or seats are missing than a DPF. Especially if it's been removed in such a way to hide the removal from Mr MOT.

Exactly this, I have other correspondence from the dealer, I’ve offered him a reasonable resolution, which he is declining also.. my cars now illegal, uninsured, no mot or tax.

im now going to be almost £3000 out of pocket if I need to get this road legal myself, he provided me a warranty , which is also now VOID, due to the engine having a modification.

may I add, this car is only 3 weeks into a finance agreement.

as above, I offered him a reasonable resolution , he has said , and I quote.
”from experience if you put a DPF back in, it will ruin the car, regarding insurance, I wouldn’t tell them pal”