Yorkshire energy ?

Phones4Chris

masonic said:

BedrockFred said:

Rt both gas and elec showing SP on the DB's does this mean I can switch away from SP.
What happens to my cridit balance of over £200

You cannot switch more than once per 28 days. Most switches take less than 28 days. If you don't mind your switch failing and having to chase your new supplier and restart it, then you could try it, bearing in mind the issues I mentioned in my previous response to you.

Credit balances will be calculated when YE generates final bills, and then they will be sent to SP. It could be a week or two yet before that happens.

Where do you get this 28 days rubbish. Provide a link to the OFGEM website page that says that or stop repeating it. Electricity switches should be completed within 21 days according to OFGEM https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/how-switch-energy-supplier-and-shop-better-deal  See paragraph 5
(And I'm not talking about the SoLR change and there's no mention of 28 days in the SoLR Guidance in any event).

From OFGEM's website https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/connections-and-moving-home/who-my-gas-or-electricity-supplier To find your supplier
For Gas, use https://www.findmysupplier.energy/webapp/index.html
This site tells you both Network Operators https://www.energynetworks.org/operating-the-networks/whos-my-network-operator  and then use those websites to find your suppliers, but it is more convoluted . Make sure you turn off your Adblockers otherwise some links or buttons may not show or work.
(For gas, when you find it, it will probably go to the previous link anyway, the previous link is the easiest and quickest).

If Scottish Power are showing as your supplier, you can initiate a switch.

masonic

Phones4Chris said:

masonic said:

BedrockFred said:

Rt both gas and elec showing SP on the DB's does this mean I can switch away from SP.
What happens to my cridit balance of over £200

You cannot switch more than once per 28 days. Most switches take less than 28 days. If you don't mind your switch failing and having to chase your new supplier and restart it, then you could try it, bearing in mind the issues I mentioned in my previous response to you.

Credit balances will be calculated when YE generates final bills, and then they will be sent to SP. It could be a week or two yet before that happens.

Where do you get this 28 days rubbish. Provide a link to the OFGEM website page that says that or stop repeating it.

I've had first had experience of a switch being rejected after the OneSelect - Together Energy SoLR takeover because I "switched too recently". That switch was started after Together Energy was showing as my supplier on the national database. It took about a week before my new supplier was able to successfully submit a claim for my supply. My eventual switch date was 22/01/2019 and TE took over my supply on 24/12/2018 = 29 days.

The 28 day condition is well documented, for example:

"The basic domestic contract allows switching every 28 days. (License Condition)"

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2008/12/bcc_response_to_energy_supply_probe_-_initial_findings_report.pdf

"domestic contracts allow people to switch every 28 days"

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/38433/tmcoresponsetoenergysupplyprobe-initialfindingsreport.pdf

"How often can I switch gas and electric? If you've switched but then hear about a better energy tariff, or you're not happy with your new supplier, you're free to switch every 28 days."

https://www.theenergyshop.com/guides/switch-energy-supplier

"When can I next change provider? You can change your energy provider every 28 days."

https://www.simplyswitch.com/energy/guides/switch-energy-supplier-5-simple-steps/

"Can I switch suppliers again? You can switch suppliers every 28 days if you want to..."

https://www.greenelectricity.org/switching-process/

"You can switch after 28 days of being with a new supplier"

https://www.utilitybidder.co.uk/domestic/how-often-can-i-switch-energy-suppliers/

Phones4Chris said:

Electricity switches should be completed within 21 days according to OFGEM https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/how-switch-energy-supplier-and-shop-better-deal

I agree and have stated as much. If a switch cannot be completed until 28 days after being with a new supplier, and switches take a maxiumum of 21 days to complete, this is the likely source of the rejected switch posted earlier in the thread.

If all those sources, including Ofgem, energy companies, and switching services, are wrong and you are right, then that's great, but I'm going to need a little more from you than a simple denial to be convinced.*

The real question is when are we treated as being with SP for the purpose of the 28 day limit? Is it the date SP is first shown as our supplier on the national database, or is it the date they were appointed SoLR? Clearly in the case of the OneSelect - Together Energy SoLR takeover it was the former. If you have evidence it will be different this time I'd like to see it.* Otherwise I'll continue on my path of seeing what happens on Monday for those who have already submitted their switch (or in one case re-submitted a failed one) and take a view from there.

Edit: * I've subsequently found evidence that there was previously a 10 working day lockout period after a new supplier is registered to the database. This formed part of the Master Registration Agreement all suppliers follow. The MRA has subsequently been updated to remove this lockout period, so it appears the 28 day rule is no more.

Shedman

I'll hopefully find out the answer to that one soon as I initiated a switch on the 1st once both utilities were updated and showing on the database as now being SP.  I guess if it's rejected I'll hear early next week.

[Deleted User]

Wow been a long time since anyone accused me of regurgitating rubbish but there you go.  My thanks to Masonic for a very thorough reply so I'll not regurgitate his rebuttal.  Can I just say for the record that my personal experience of being caught up in a SOLR switch (Breeze to British Gas) in December 2019 and the time it took to transfer away to YE made me acutely aware that the normal timeframe for a switch goes out the window somewhat.  And that was in a non-covid era.   So to Phones4Chris, I can give you dates of when I was finally able to initiate an unrejected transfer to YE earlier this year (but I think you have enough reading to be getting on) so I'll just go and regurgitate off and get my monthly meter reads done.

Tharweb

[Deleted User] said:

Interestingly SP have advised a very low DD which bears no relationship to what I will be billed by them (whenever this happens).

I changed mine to the lowest I could, but they suggested even £10 was too much! 

spot1034

The only comment I'd make about those quotes posted above by masonic is that they are intended for consumption by the general public who are not going to understand the finer points of the switching process. If in reality it takes two to four weeks to update the databases and the 28 days only starts from the point where that has been done, then surely the advice given to the ordinary member of the public would not be that they can switch every 28 days. 
I'd suggest that perhaps the aim is to make the updating process as rapid as possible so that switching after 28 days is possible, but in practice this is rarely achieved. 

masonic

spot1034 said:

The only comment I'd make about those quotes posted above by masonic is that they are intended for consumption by the general public who are not going to understand the finer points of the switching process. If in reality it takes two to four weeks to update the databases and the 28 days only starts from the point where that has been done, then surely the advice given to the ordinary member of the public would not be that they can switch every 28 days.

The first two links were not really intended for consumption by the general public.

Under a normal switch, the databases are updated on the day of the switch. All switches (including SoLR ones) are subject to a 14 day cooling off period, which sets a minimum time a switch can take (in practice it is about 17 days), whereas switches should complete in a maximum of 21 days.

So when you switch to a new supplier under normal circumstances, you apply to switch, then the switch happens 14-21 days later, and only then does the new supplier start billing you. The minimum length of time you must stay with that new supplier is 28 days, so you could not immediately switch again when your switch completes as the switch would complete within 28 days of your previous switch completing. People do get caught out by this.

With a SoLR, they start billing you from the date they are appointed, but according to the databases they do not become your energy supplier for a minimum of 14 days thereafter. If they are slow (like SP has been) then it could be longer. The only uncertainty is whether the supply start date is backdated on the databases, such that in the case of SP, they are either registered as our supplier from 6th Dec or 30th Dec. If it is 6th Dec, then the requirements for a successful switching application are that no switch in progress is shown on the databases (so any time after 30th Dec), and the switch does not complete within 28 days of the backdated supply start date (so any time after 3rd Jan) - under this scenario a switch started on or after 30th Dec would be fine. If it is 6th Dec, then the requirements for a successful switching application are that no switch in progress is shown on the databases (so any time after 30th Dec), and the switch does not complete within 28 days of the date the database is updated (so any time after 3rd Jan) - under this scenario a switch completing on or after 27th Jan would be fine (meaning the switch couldn't be started before ~6th Jan).

There have been instances in the past where after SoLR takeover it was not possible to complete a switch until 28 days after the databases showed the SoLR as the supplier. The assumption is that the supply start date in those instances was not backdated. That is not to say the same will be true in this case, but there is a risk. The impact of a rejected energy switch is not significant in most cases, so for those desperate to leave ASAP it may be worth them trying, but we are only a few days away from the point at which the risk evaporates.

Edit:

spot1034 said:

I'd suggest that perhaps the aim is to make the updating process as rapid as possible so that switching after 28 days is possible, but in practice this is rarely achieved. 

You could be right about this, see my subsequent post below. The 28 days could be made up of a 10 working day (14 calendar day) post-switch lockout period, followed by a 14 day cooling off period.

Edit2: Looks like the situation has changed and there may no longer be any lockout period.

Stuart42

Could someone please clarify for me exactly what happens with credit balances from YE if you transfer straight back out of SP?  I was £140 in credit with YE and don't want this to disappear down a black hole if I transfer from SP straight way

masonic

Just to add some further complexity to the situation, here are a couple of papers that may be of interest:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/system/files/docs/2016/04/agenda_item_4-advance_registrations_paper.pdf

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/system/files/docs/2016/06/lock_out_periods-_policy_paper_0.pdf

These are from 2016, but I can't find anything more recent that suggests anything has changed (Edit: have located the current version of the MRA, from which the lockout condition has been removed). These state:

"For electricity, Supplier  B  can submit  a registration  to the relevant MPAS provider a maximum of 28 days in  advance of the Supply Start Date (SSD) up to the last working  day before the SSD. The MPAS systems are therefore already configured to be able  to accept next day switching. Any subsequent registration  request  by Supplier  C would only  be accepted at least 10 working  days after the switch to Supplier  B."

"electricity:  currently there is an explicit post-switch lock-out period of 10 working days.  As in gas, prior to the switch, only one registration request can be active at anytime. Unlike gas, if supplier C submits a registration request immediately following a switch from Supplier A to B, a registration request from Supplier C is only valid if it:

• 15.5.3 is received by the relevant MPAS Provider on or after the later of:
  
• (A) the eleventh Working Day following the date when the relevant MPAS Provider has Registered the Old Supplier for the relevant Metering Point; and
  
• (B) the Supply Start Date provided by that Old Supplier."

Importantly, there seems to be no lockout period for gas, so that would explain why in at least one case electricity has failed, but gas has not.

rmtucker

Has anyone else had no movement on the databases? ie. Still showing YE On both gas and electricity?
It is so annoying 4 weeks in and SP has not done a thing, and I thought it was bad last time with breeze/BG.