BITCOIN

underground99

thegentleway said:

So based on your “fundamentals” what’s the current price/value of Bitcoin? 

The price of bitcoin is something that changes every second. The market's opinion of the value of bitcoin is determined by the weighted average of the opinions of market participants who want to get in or out of it at a point in time.

'Fundamentally', one could imagine that a coin with a market price of $41k could change hands for $100k or $50k or $20k in the future, for the same reasons as a few years ago when it was $300 people remembered seeing it at $1000 or $100 and imagined it could go to either of those sort of prices or beyond.

tichtich

Scottex99 said:

Going to a crypto conference in Miami in 2 weeks, will see if I can find an actual real crypto company anywhere and maybe take a photo of them just for you guys

You do know that the USA is on the COVID amber list, don't you? 

Scottex99

thegentleway said:

So based on your “fundamentals” what’s the current price/value of Bitcoin? 

It's 40,909 right this second.

It's going over 100k, ETH is going over 10k too btw

thegentleway

underground99 said:

thegentleway said:

So based on your “fundamentals” what’s the current price/value of Bitcoin? 

The price of bitcoin is something that changes every second. The market's opinion of the value of bitcoin is determined by the weighted average of the opinions of market participants who want to get in or out of it at a point in time.

'Fundamentally', one could imagine that a coin with a market price of $41k could change hands for $100k or $50k or $20k in the future, for the same reasons as a few years ago when it was $300 people remembered seeing it at $1000 or $100 and imagined it could go to either of those sort of prices or beyond.

So people’s predictions are their opinion of other people’s future opinion...

thegentleway

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

So based on your “fundamentals” what’s the current price/value of Bitcoin? 

It's 40,909 right this second.

It's going over 100k, ETH is going over 10k too btw

Yeah that’s what my crystal ball said as well but the tea leaves agreed with fingerbush’s shampoo chart so not sure which to believe now.

Malthusian

Atlas234 said:

If it was a closed system then that would be true, but there is new money and new people entering the market all the time. I can sell my bitcoin at 10x profit to a new investor who thinks they'll get 10x a more a few years down the line and no one has lost anything

And how does that new investor cash out at a profit, and where does the money come from?

It is a closed system, and it is true. Punters' money in == punters' money out.

lozzy1965

Malthusian said:
It is a closed system, and it is true. Punters' money in == punters' money out.

Isn't that true of any investment?

Atlas234

Malthusian said:

Atlas234 said:

If it was a closed system then that would be true, but there is new money and new people entering the market all the time. I can sell my bitcoin at 10x profit to a new investor who thinks they'll get 10x a more a few years down the line and no one has lost anything

And how does that new investor cash out at a profit, and where does the money come from?

It is a closed system, and it is true. Punters' money in == punters' money out.

Its really not that different to the stock market, just a lot newer and more volatile
Coins have valuation based on their current market capitalisation
Dividends are paid in the form of staking rewards and interest
Ownership of coins/tokens will give you voting privileges in many projects
There are futures and options contracts should you wish
You cant sell your coins without another punter buying it off you just the same as you cant sell your shares without someone buying them off you

lozzy1965

Atlas234 said:
Its really not that different to the stock market, just a lot newer and more volatile

Coins have valuation based on their current market capitalisation
Dividends are paid in the form of staking rewards and interest
Ownership of coins/tokens will give you voting privileges in many projects
There are futures and options contracts should you wish
You cant sell your coins without another punter buying it off you just the same as you cant sell your shares without someone buying them off you

That's what I just said!!!  But you put it with far more detail
The bit's in bold are interesting. 

Malthusian

lozzy1965 said:
Isn't that true of any investment?

No. Dividends and interest on shares and loans issued by businesses, for example, are paid from money which comes from businesses adding value to their inputs and generating profits. Profits don't always happen but that is the hope, and if you diversify properly, it becomes an expectation rather than a hope.

Those profits entering the equation means it is not a closed system.

Bitcoins do nothing, and generate no profits. The only money in comes from other punters. It is a closed system.

Atlas234 said:

Coins have valuation based on their current market capitalisation

There is no such thing as market capitalisation for a crypto token. Nobody is going to buy every single Bitcoin in existence for $40,000 each. By contrast there is a material possibility of a business being bought out for its market cap or something around that figure.

Dividends are paid in the form of staking rewards and interest

Which come from where?

In the absence of a business adding value to its inputs and generating profits, punters' money in == punters' money out. How that money is shuffled around is irrelevant.