BITCOIN

Scottex99

HansOndabush said:

Malthusian said:

HansOndabush said:

New Bitcoin Pizza company won't accept bitcoin as payment; ha ha what a joke this thing is:

https://www.businessinsider.in/cryptocurrency/news/crypto-investor-anthony-pompliano-launches-a-bitcoin-themed-pizza-service-in-the-us-that-wont-accept-the-digital-asset-as-payment/articleshow/82766763.cms

Of course he doesn't. Nobody who owns Bitcoin would be daft enough to pay for pizza in Bitcoin.

Why would anyone give away their Bitcoin for a pizza instead of hodling it while it goes to the moon? 

Why would anyone start a 'Bitcoin pizza company' that won't accept Bitcoin for payment? Like saying he'd rather take dollars. Hardly an endorsement for Bitcoin. Just the sort of nonsense that is typical of the crypto crowd.
As for going to the moon, I think a further drop to $20k is likely.

You dont hold any crypto right? And think it's "likely" that it's going to 20k? Why? Because it went down a lot yesterday?

Bored of repeating myself but I work in the industry, for a firm that was 4 people two years ago and is now 27. In fact we're raising money at a 55m valuation right now.

 work 12 hours a day in the space seeing all sorts of people, projects and craziness going on, and have done for four years, I MAY have some insight into the industry, maybe.

BTC could go to $20k, highly unlikely imo, much more likely it's $100k+ in the coming year or so for various reasons given here repeatedly.

As Darren says, even including the huge dip yesterday, its performed better than all the standard investments in the last year, by far. How long does it need to keep crashing up for anyone to be open minded about it?

[Deleted User]

You mistake me darren. I would take no satisfaction in Bitcoin crashing, because I see the danger of contagion to my own investments. I think it very dangerous that Bitcoin is so volatile and I’m worried that people who have been marched to the top of the hill shall be marched back down again. It is not possible that every Bitcoin investor is now sitting on a profit, perhaps the majority are now in the red because Bitcoin trades 10% of its total value daily. Regardless, the +/- is real.
That was the point of my last post.

Good luck with your journey. It’s not an investment for me.

HansOndabush

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Malthusian said:

HansOndabush said:

New Bitcoin Pizza company won't accept bitcoin as payment; ha ha what a joke this thing is:

https://www.businessinsider.in/cryptocurrency/news/crypto-investor-anthony-pompliano-launches-a-bitcoin-themed-pizza-service-in-the-us-that-wont-accept-the-digital-asset-as-payment/articleshow/82766763.cms

Of course he doesn't. Nobody who owns Bitcoin would be daft enough to pay for pizza in Bitcoin.

Why would anyone give away their Bitcoin for a pizza instead of hodling it while it goes to the moon? 

Why would anyone start a 'Bitcoin pizza company' that won't accept Bitcoin for payment? Like saying he'd rather take dollars. Hardly an endorsement for Bitcoin. Just the sort of nonsense that is typical of the crypto crowd.
As for going to the moon, I think a further drop to $20k is likely.

You dont hold any crypto right? And think it's "likely" that it's going to 20k? Why? Because it went down a lot yesterday?

The chart pattern suggests it is going to 20K.

Scottex99

HansOndabush said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Malthusian said:

HansOndabush said:

New Bitcoin Pizza company won't accept bitcoin as payment; ha ha what a joke this thing is:

https://www.businessinsider.in/cryptocurrency/news/crypto-investor-anthony-pompliano-launches-a-bitcoin-themed-pizza-service-in-the-us-that-wont-accept-the-digital-asset-as-payment/articleshow/82766763.cms

Of course he doesn't. Nobody who owns Bitcoin would be daft enough to pay for pizza in Bitcoin.

Why would anyone give away their Bitcoin for a pizza instead of hodling it while it goes to the moon? 

Why would anyone start a 'Bitcoin pizza company' that won't accept Bitcoin for payment? Like saying he'd rather take dollars. Hardly an endorsement for Bitcoin. Just the sort of nonsense that is typical of the crypto crowd.
As for going to the moon, I think a further drop to $20k is likely.

You dont hold any crypto right? And think it's "likely" that it's going to 20k? Why? Because it went down a lot yesterday?

The chart pattern suggests it is going to 20K.

"The chart pattern" Which one is that?

HansOndabush

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

Malthusian said:

HansOndabush said:

New Bitcoin Pizza company won't accept bitcoin as payment; ha ha what a joke this thing is:

https://www.businessinsider.in/cryptocurrency/news/crypto-investor-anthony-pompliano-launches-a-bitcoin-themed-pizza-service-in-the-us-that-wont-accept-the-digital-asset-as-payment/articleshow/82766763.cms

Of course he doesn't. Nobody who owns Bitcoin would be daft enough to pay for pizza in Bitcoin.

Why would anyone give away their Bitcoin for a pizza instead of hodling it while it goes to the moon? 

Why would anyone start a 'Bitcoin pizza company' that won't accept Bitcoin for payment? Like saying he'd rather take dollars. Hardly an endorsement for Bitcoin. Just the sort of nonsense that is typical of the crypto crowd.
As for going to the moon, I think a further drop to $20k is likely.

You dont hold any crypto right? And think it's "likely" that it's going to 20k? Why? Because it went down a lot yesterday?

The chart pattern suggests it is going to 20K.

"The chart pattern" Which one is that?

Candlestick chart for Bitcoin showing clear head and shoulders pattern. The neck line was broken after the second shoulder and the initial drop from there was to 30K resistance. After that breaks, nothing to support the price until 20K. Don't you use charts at work?

Malthusian

We aren't hand-waving; we're just bored of going round in circles. Honestly, I'm beginning to think the most existential crisis to Bitcoin is that there isn't a big enough percentage of the human population that have the mental faculty to understand why its useful. Its like the matrix and everyone is happy being Cypher - "Ignorance is bliss."

If you can cast your memory back to the sequels you'll note that Cypher had the last laugh. All evidence suggested that the "real world" was just as fake as the "Matrix" (Neo has magic powers in both, programs can pass from one to the other same as humans, things in the "real world" conflict with understood laws of physics). So everyone who took the blue pill expended a lot of energy, made themselves miserable and lost any assets they had in the real world to achieve nothing whatsoever. Remind you of anyone?

It is not possible that every Bitcoin investor is now sitting on a profit, perhaps the majority are now in the red because Bitcoin trades 10% of its total value daily. Regardless, the +/- is real.

To be pedantic, it is possible for every Bitcoin investor to be sitting on a profit. That happens whenever it hits a peak. It's just not possible for them all to cash it out.

As a minority of Bitcoin investors have made exponential returns it is a given that the majority of punters will cash out at a loss. If someone cashes out a profit of 10x then 10 people have to lose the same amount of money, or one person has to lose 10x as much money, or somewhere in between.

thegentleway

darren232002 said:

thegentleway said:

Intrisic value: I agree it's not necessarily an issue (e.g. dollar bills don't have intrisic value but work as money). Someone asked what's the difference between investing in shares and bitcoin. Bitcoin just sits there whilst companies produce goods and services. You seem to have confused intrinsic value with generating cash/value.

*Sigh* I'm not confused, you're just unable to acknowledge that goods and services don't have to solely exist 'in the real world.' Bitcoin is providing a service. Its fixing the worlds money supply so that your net worth isn't inflated away by central banks to protect the wealth of the already wealthy. Its a permission-less way to transfer money quickly and cheaply across borders 24/7 (Have you tried doing this with a bank lately?). Those seem like two pretty big 'services' to start with.

It's a stretch to call it money but it does offer a potential international payment system. International payments/transfers are a bit slow and expensive but banks could step up their game if there was sufficient pressure/competition (e.g. used to take 3 working days with CHAPS to transfer money withing UK and now takes minutes with FPS). There are also plenty of anti-inflationary assets already, e.g. gold, commodities, real estate, etc... It's entirely possible that Bitcoin could disrupt either or both of these areas. It has the potential to be useful but it doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin does not pay anythying whereas bonds pay coupons and shares pay dividends, it's a fairly obvious difference. I'm not sure why you keep trying to obfuscate this simple fact? It's precisely why I invest in shares/bonds but I don't invest in gold as it doesn't pay an income and is purely speculative (gold is still useful though).

darren232002 said:

thegentleway said:

Environmental concerns: you can play smoke and mirrors with claims about renewable energy but that does not address the ridiculous amount of energy usage wastage. Bitcoin uses an obscene amount of energy. Obviously it's easier to say I just don't get it and call me stupid. However, that says a lot more about you than it does about my general intelligence.

Wastes of energy are subjective. Fun fact; the most damaging thing you can do for the environment is to have a child. This doesn't mean that we should stop having children. Next, our goal as a civilization should not be to curtail energy use - the Kardashev scale suggests that advanced civilizations will use more energy, not less. We can though use our energy more efficiently.

We should definitely reduce our energy consumption until we generate it without burning fossil fuels.

darren232002 said:

Articles on Bitcoins energy use are written by people with ideological axes to grind that aren't capable of thinking relatively instead of absolutely. The energy used is mostly renewable, it incentivises development of renewable energy sources because BTC miners are always buyers of last resort, and its an absolute drop in the bucket compared to the current fiat / gold / petrodollar system. The 'Bitcoin is bad for the environment' stuff doesn't stand up to any rational scrutiny whatsoever.

You're misinformed. Most of the bitcoin mining is done in China which is mostly powered by coal.

darren232002 said:

Literally everything posted above has already been pointed out in this thread. We aren't hand-waving; we're just bored of going round in circles. Honestly, I'm beginning to think the most existential crisis to Bitcoin is that there isn't a big enough percentage of the human population that have the mental faculty to understand why its useful. Its like the matrix and everyone is happy being Cypher - "Ignorance is bliss."

Sorry you're bored, I find differences in opinions interesting. Surely there are bitcoin forums where everyone agrees it's awesome and anyone who doesn't is stupid which may captivate your attention.

[Deleted User]

To be pedantic, Malthusian,  you omitted the word “now” in response to my post. I said it is not possible that every Bitcoin investor is now sitting on a profit.  

Atlas234

Malthusian said:

We aren't hand-waving; we're just bored of going round in circles. Honestly, I'm beginning to think the most existential crisis to Bitcoin is that there isn't a big enough percentage of the human population that have the mental faculty to understand why its useful. Its like the matrix and everyone is happy being Cypher - "Ignorance is bliss."

If you can cast your memory back to the sequels you'll note that Cypher had the last laugh. All evidence suggested that the "real world" was just as fake as the "Matrix" (Neo has magic powers in both, programs can pass from one to the other same as humans, things in the "real world" conflict with understood laws of physics). So everyone who took the blue pill expended a lot of energy, made themselves miserable and lost any assets they had in the real world to achieve nothing whatsoever. Remind you of anyone?

It is not possible that every Bitcoin investor is now sitting on a profit, perhaps the majority are now in the red because Bitcoin trades 10% of its total value daily. Regardless, the +/- is real.

To be pedantic, it is possible for every Bitcoin investor to be sitting on a profit. That happens whenever it hits a peak. It's just not possible for them all to cash it out.

As a minority of Bitcoin investors have made exponential returns it is a given that the majority of punters will cash out at a loss. If someone cashes out a profit of 10x then 10 people have to lose the same amount of money, or one person has to lose 10x as much money, or somewhere in between.

If it was a closed system then that would be true, but there is new money and new people entering the market all the time. I can sell my bitcoin at 10x profit to a new investor who thinks they'll get 10x a more a few years down the line and no one has lost anything

thegentleway

Malthusian said:

As a minority of Bitcoin investors have made exponential returns it is a given that the majority of punters will cash out at a loss. If someone cashes out a profit of 10x then 10 people have to lose the same amount of money, or one person has to lose 10x as much money, or somewhere in between.

Or not cash out at all if they lose their keys/get hacked...