BITCOIN

Atlas234

Malthusian said:

HansOndabush said:

New Bitcoin Pizza company won't accept bitcoin as payment; ha ha what a joke this thing is:

https://www.businessinsider.in/cryptocurrency/news/crypto-investor-anthony-pompliano-launches-a-bitcoin-themed-pizza-service-in-the-us-that-wont-accept-the-digital-asset-as-payment/articleshow/82766763.cms

Of course he doesn't. Nobody who owns Bitcoin would be daft enough to pay for pizza in Bitcoin.

Why would anyone give away their Bitcoin for a pizza instead of hodling it while it goes to the moon? Especially when there are still schmucks who will give you pizza if you offload some worthless fiat currency to them?

Do you want to be like that guy back in 2010 who handed over 10,000 BTC for a couple of pizzas?

Outside the odd publicity stunt, people only hand over Bitcoins for goods and services if it's undesirable to do it with fiat (i.e. they're illegal). Pizzas don't qualify.

As it always needs to be said: attaching a Bitcoin -> fiat processor to your checkout software and letting someone pay a third party to convert their Bitcoins into fiat before you get paid in fiat != accepting Bitcoins.

You strike me as someone who is very bitter that they missed out on bitcoin back when it was cheap.
I mean its hard to decipher sometimes... between all the 'bro' 'moon' 'mewn' comments and claims of illegal activity you like to sprinkle across all of your posts, but you certainly give off that impression. 

P1

https://tenor.com/view/dog-gif-7827513
Max pain and annoyance for a lot of recent market participants would be a slow price recovery.  This is why you dollar cost average over time!  One of the biggest daily moves ever.  Nearly as severe as the Corona March crash falling 10.5k to 4k in a month!  This did happen in 2017.  Went from 6k to 2.9k in 2 weeks in early Sept 2017.  This current top was 14th April.  65k to a very brief touch of 30k in a month.   All these crashes (not including the current one) did not revisit the bottom.  Certainly not safe and out of the woods here, but if this is the end of the bull market then its been very different from all prior bull markets.  RR is not too bad here, but you need an exit plan here if you're a buyer. Most long term holders will be meh

HansOndabush

Malthusian said:

HansOndabush said:

New Bitcoin Pizza company won't accept bitcoin as payment; ha ha what a joke this thing is:

https://www.businessinsider.in/cryptocurrency/news/crypto-investor-anthony-pompliano-launches-a-bitcoin-themed-pizza-service-in-the-us-that-wont-accept-the-digital-asset-as-payment/articleshow/82766763.cms

Of course he doesn't. Nobody who owns Bitcoin would be daft enough to pay for pizza in Bitcoin.

Why would anyone give away their Bitcoin for a pizza instead of hodling it while it goes to the moon? 

Why would anyone start a 'Bitcoin pizza company' that won't accept Bitcoin for payment? Like saying he'd rather take dollars. Hardly an endorsement for Bitcoin. Just the sort of nonsense that is typical of the crypto crowd.
As for going to the moon, I think a further drop to $20k is likely.

Malthusian

For anyone who is bored of the circular Bitcoin debate, I highly recommend this hilarious Grauniad article about Kate Moss auctioning a non-fungible broken.

The hilarious bit is not that Kate Moss is cashing in on the dying embers of the NFT fad - good on her for raising some money for charity.

The hilarious bit is the Guardian's chin-stroking, too-woke-for-words idea that the small number of women whose NFTs catch the imagination and go for large sums are striking a blow for feminism.

In April the model Emily Ratajkowski announced she was auctioning an NFT of herself standing in front of an image by the photographer Richard Prince. “The digital terrain should be a place where women can share their likeness as they choose, controlling the usage of their image and receiving whatever potential capital attached,” she tweeted. “Instead, the internet has more frequently served as a space where others exploit and distribute images of women’s bodies without their consent and for another’s profit.”

She said she wanted to use the new medium of NFTs to set a precedent for women and ownership online through a blockchain – a set of digital contracts – that “allows women to have ongoing authority over their image and to receive rightful compensation for its usage and distribution”.

Others such as Zoë Roth, the woman in the disaster girl meme, and Laina Morris, behind the Overly Attached Girlfriend meme, sold their photos as an NFT for $500,000 and $411,000 respectively, gaining ownership back of an image that was shared by millions.

“Images in the public domain are owned by everyone by definition,” said Amit Katwala, the senior editor of Wired UK. “NFTs are attaching the notion of ownership to something that can’t really be owned – you don’t own the image itself but you own the right to call yourself the owner of that image.”

As attractive as the idea is that Roth and Morris are taking back control for women everywhere, rather than simply getting a very nice windfall thanks to some good timing and a good dose of luck, there are a few teensy problems with it.

1) Everyone is just as able to make new "Overly Attached Girlfriend" memes as they were before Morris cashed in. Although she created the YouTube video it came from and she therefore retains the copyright, i.e. the actual thing that says what other people can do with the image, there are fair use exemptions for parody. And any copyright claim would be seriously weakened by the fact she hasn't made any attempt to stop previous copies. Anyway, the NFT changed nothing on that front.

2) Even if Morris' NFT did carry some sort of control over her image, she's, um, sold it. So far from "having ongoing authority", she's handed whatever ongoing authority the NFT carried (zero) to some dude in Dubai.

"You don’t own the image itself but you own the right to call yourself the owner of that image." Genius. Best not to overthink it, this is the kind of mad stuff that people say and do when a party is coming to an end.

Atlas234 said:

You strike me as someone who is very bitter that they missed out on bitcoin back when it was cheap.

I don't consider not relieving a bagholder of their money to be "missing out", but if it makes you feel better to believe that then crack on.
Did you have anything interesting to contribute, e.g. a reason why somebody would hand over Bitcoins for pizza when they're going to rocket in value?

thegentleway

When did we “evolve” from indigent apes to hoarding humans obsessed with ownership? 

lozzy1965

thegentleway said:

When did we “evolve” from indigent apes to hoarding humans obsessed with ownership? 

When we discovered gold?

lozzy1965

Malthusian said:
Of course he doesn't. Nobody who owns Bitcoin would be daft enough to pay for pizza in Bitcoin.

Why would anyone give away their Bitcoin for a pizza instead of hodling it while it goes to the moon? Especially when there are still schmucks who will give you pizza if you offload some worthless fiat currency to them?

Do you want to be like that guy back in 2010 who handed over 10,000 BTC for a couple of pizzas?

Outside the odd publicity stunt, people only hand over Bitcoins for goods and services if it's undesirable to do it with fiat (i.e. they're illegal). Pizzas don't qualify.

As it always needs to be said: attaching a Bitcoin -> fiat processor to your checkout software and letting someone pay a third party to convert their Bitcoins into fiat before you get paid in fiat != accepting Bitcoins.

Isn't Bitcoin specifically 'money'?  That's what one does with money, buy things.  It becomes a bit strange when the currency one uses to buy things becomes, in itself, collectable though .

User232002

ZingPowZing said:

Bitcoin halved.
Don’t worry though, “you haven’t lost anything until you sell.”
Good luck with that.

God, I love the hilarity of statements like this. Bitcoin 'crashes' 40% and all the naysayers come out and do their victory lap for the day. Meanwhile, Bitcoin was actually up 110% YTD at its peak and is now currently up 30% YTD - which is still higher than any other asset (S&P up ~10% and Gold down 7% YTD for context). 

Bitcoin keeps crashing... upwards.

thegentleway said:

To be fair some of the anti crypto comments from the haters/trolls don't deserve much response but that's not an excuse to brush everything to the side instead of adding any substance.

This is a pretty typical response where someone effectively says "I know others don't really get it, but I'm asking valid questions and deserve a response," whilst proceeding to post the same rubbish but in a different way. You might be very intelligent in other areas of life, but your questions here have all been answered in this thread and come from nothing more than your own biases.

thegentleway said:

Intrisic value: I agree it's not necessarily an issue (e.g. dollar bills don't have intrisic value but work as money). Someone asked what's the difference between investing in shares and bitcoin. Bitcoin just sits there whilst companies produce goods and services. You seem to have confused intrinsic value with generating cash/value.

*Sigh* I'm not confused, you're just unable to acknowledge that goods and services don't have to solely exist 'in the real world.' Bitcoin is providing a service. Its fixing the worlds money supply so that your net worth isn't inflated away by central banks to protect the wealth of the already wealthy. Its a permission-less way to transfer money quickly and cheaply across borders 24/7 (Have you tried doing this with a bank lately?). Those seem like two pretty big 'services' to start with.

thegentleway said:

Environmental concerns: you can play smoke and mirrors with claims about renewable energy but that does not address the ridiculous amount of energy usage wastage. Bitcoin uses an obscene amount of energy. Obviously it's easier to say I just don't get it and call me stupid. However, that says a lot more about you than it does about my general intelligence.

Wastes of energy are subjective. Fun fact; the most damaging thing you can do for the environment is to have a child. This doesn't mean that we should stop having children. Next, our goal as a civilization should not be to curtail energy use - the Kardashev scale suggests that advanced civilizations will use more energy, not less. We can though use our energy more efficiently.

Articles on Bitcoins energy use are written by people with ideological axes to grind that aren't capable of thinking relatively instead of absolutely. The energy used is mostly renewable, it incentivises development of renewable energy sources because BTC miners are always buyers of last resort, and its an absolute drop in the bucket compared to the current fiat / gold / petrodollar system. The 'Bitcoin is bad for the environment' stuff doesn't stand up to any rational scrutiny whatsoever.

Literally everything posted above has already been pointed out in this thread. We aren't hand-waving; we're just bored of going round in circles. Honestly, I'm beginning to think the most existential crisis to Bitcoin is that there isn't a big enough percentage of the human population that have the mental faculty to understand why its useful. Its like the matrix and everyone is happy being Cypher - "Ignorance is bliss."

User232002

lozzy1965 said:

Isn't Bitcoin specifically 'money'?  That's what one does with money, buy things.  It becomes a bit strange when the currency one uses to buy things becomes, in itself, collectable though .

Jesus wept. Facepalm.jpg

Something else that has already been addressed ITT...

HansOndabush

darren232002 said:

ZingPowZing said:

Bitcoin halved.
Don’t worry though, “you haven’t lost anything until you sell.”
Good luck with that.

God, I love the hilarity of statements like this. Bitcoin 'crashes' 40% and all the naysayers come out and do their victory lap for the day. Meanwhile, Bitcoin was actually up 110% YTD at its peak and is now currently up 30% YTD - which is still higher than any other asset (S&P up ~10% and Gold down 7% YTD for context). 

Bitcoin keeps crashing... upwards.

thegentleway said:

To be fair some of the anti crypto comments from the haters/trolls don't deserve much response but that's not an excuse to brush everything to the side instead of adding any substance.

This is a pretty typical response where someone effectively says "I know others don't really get it, but I'm asking valid questions and deserve a response," whilst proceeding to post the same rubbish but in a different way. You might be very intelligent in other areas of life, but your questions here have all been answered in this thread and come from nothing more than your own biases.

thegentleway said:

Intrisic value: I agree it's not necessarily an issue (e.g. dollar bills don't have intrisic value but work as money). Someone asked what's the difference between investing in shares and bitcoin. Bitcoin just sits there whilst companies produce goods and services. You seem to have confused intrinsic value with generating cash/value.

*Sigh* I'm not confused, you're just unable to acknowledge that goods and services don't have to solely exist 'in the real world.' Bitcoin is providing a service. Its fixing the worlds money supply so that your net worth isn't inflated away by central banks to protect the wealth of the already wealthy. Its a permission-less way to transfer money quickly and cheaply across borders 24/7 (Have you tried doing this with a bank lately?). Those seem like two pretty big 'services' 

Bitcoin doesn't fix anything let alone the world's money supply; that is laughable. You can't even buy a pizza with it from the 'Bitcoin pizza company'. Having lost 50% of its value in a month you can no longer argue it is a store of wealth. What exactly is it fixing that gold can't address?
As for claiming it is not an environmental problem, Elon Musk who I dare say has more Bitcoin than you and more to lose, has nevertheless acknowledged the energy wastage of Bitcoin such that he back tracked on Tesla accepting Bitcoin. If there is no issue as you maintain then he would not have done that.
You are a classic crypto cultist who understands it all but cannot explain anything to other intelligent people. You're like the 'clever' admirers of the Emporor's New Clothes who could see what no one else could see when in reality there was nothing to see.