BITCOIN

Scottex99

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

That's because Bitcoin is a speculative asset, not an investment.

What's the difference?

You're putting money in to make more money. Whether you steadily grow 5% per year or do +300% one month and -200% the next, there's no difference to me, other than personal risk appetite.

The main difference is that companies produce products/services and generate cash whereas Bitcoin just sits there doing nothing. 

Bore off you. Google some of the DeFi projects and see what they do

HansOndabush

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

That's because Bitcoin is a speculative asset, not an investment.

What's the difference?

You're putting money in to make more money. Whether you steadily grow 5% per year or do +300% one month and -200% the next, there's no difference to me, other than personal risk appetite.

You've just stated one difference; the volatility.

A speculative asset has some of the following attributes:

High volatility, difficult to put a value on, little history, used for short term gains(losses), may be unregulated, no protection for investor

An investment has some of the following attributes:

Produces income, produces something people want i.e. goods and services, a fair value can be estimated based on income and/or earnings, used for long term appreciation (or loss), is generally traded on recognised and regulated exchanges.

I expect there are other differences; that's just off the top of my head, But if you haven't yet learned a speculation from an investment then you shouldn't be putting money into anything except a savings account.

Malthusian

Also don't forget to video yourself trying to convince Mr Patel to accept meme tokens instead of GBP for your Pot Noodle and 4-pack of Fosters so we can all have a good laugh.

HansOndabush

New Bitcoin Pizza company won't accept bitcoin as payment; ha ha what a joke this thing is:

https://www.businessinsider.in/cryptocurrency/news/crypto-investor-anthony-pompliano-launches-a-bitcoin-themed-pizza-service-in-the-us-that-wont-accept-the-digital-asset-as-payment/articleshow/82766763.cms

thegentleway

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

That's because Bitcoin is a speculative asset, not an investment.

What's the difference?

You're putting money in to make more money. Whether you steadily grow 5% per year or do +300% one month and -200% the next, there's no difference to me, other than personal risk appetite.

The main difference is that companies produce products/services and generate cash whereas Bitcoin just sits there doing nothing. 

Bore off you. Google some of the DeFi projects and see what they do

Classic smoke and mirrors. You're mixing up buying Bitcoin and investing in crypto projects to obfuscate the issue. Hanlon's razor reminds me it's presumably unintentional.
Bitcoin just sits there and you're hoping someone will buy it from you for silly money despite the environmental concerns.
We can sidetrack and talk about crypto projects if you want. They do very little. Despite all the hype and amusing jargon to make it sound technical, it's mostly unsubstanciated claims with no actual working novel system. You don't really want to talk about them though, you just want to tell people to do their own research. That's fine but a true enthusiast, who was genuinely excited at the prospect of these life changing projects, would revel at the opportunity to discuss them and their potential. It's obviously because you're too cool and not because you don't actually have a deep enough understanding to be able to explain it in layman's terms.

eskbanker

Scottex99 said:

HansOndabush said:

That's because Bitcoin is a speculative asset, not an investment.

What's the difference?

You're putting money in to make more money. Whether you steadily grow 5% per year or do +300% one month and -200% the next, there's no difference to me, other than personal risk appetite.

Anyone considering anything that could lose more than 100% has a pretty racy attitude to risk!

User232002

HansOndabush said:

A speculative asset has some of the following attributes:

High volatility, difficult to put a value on, little history, used for short term gains(losses), may be unregulated, no protection for investor

An investment has some of the following attributes:

Produces income, produces something people want i.e. goods and services, a fair value can be estimated based on income and/or earnings, used for long term appreciation (or loss), is generally traded on recognised and regulated exchanges.

I expect there are other differences; that's just off the top of my head, But if you haven't yet learned a speculation from an investment then you shouldn't be putting money into anything except a savings account.

This is your definition of value, but it is not the only definition of value. The internet doesn't produce income or a good or a service; pretty valuable though. I've pointed it out before that you seem to have a bias for the tangible over the intangible. Thats fine, but it isn't the way the world is moving.

thegentleway said:

You don't really want to talk about them though, you just want to tell people to do their own research. That's fine but a true enthusiast, who was genuinely excited at the prospect of these life changing projects, would revel at the opportunity to discuss them and their potential. It's obviously because you're too cool and not because you don't actually have a deep enough understanding to be able to explain it in layman's terms.

Its been explained in laymans terms. I've posted ad nauseam about all of the common rubbish in this thread; you just still don't get it. When you're still talking about intrinsic value, ponzis and environmental concerns like this:

thegentleway said:

Bitcoin just sits there and you're hoping someone will buy it from you for silly money despite the environmental concerns.
We can sidetrack and talk about crypto projects if you want. They do very little. Despite all the hype and amusing jargon to make it sound technical, it's mostly unsubstanciated claims with no actual working novel system. 

It just tells us that there's no point bothering with you. These concerns were all addressed in 2017 (and earlier in many cases) when they *might* have actually been relevant. Honestly, on some level, I believe Bitcoin is a general intelligence test. 

In other news, the concerted FUD that has come out in the last few days has been hilarious. "China bans Bitcoin" is the headline - and then you realise that actually they just reiterated something they said in 2017 about ICO's. I also just helped a friend in China buy Bitcoin with WeChat, so definitely 'banned' then. 

[Deleted User]

Bitcoin halved.
Don’t worry though, “you haven’t lost anything until you sell.”
Good luck with that.

thegentleway

darren232002 said:

thegentleway said:

You don't really want to talk about them though, you just want to tell people to do their own research. That's fine but a true enthusiast, who was genuinely excited at the prospect of these life changing projects, would revel at the opportunity to discuss them and their potential. It's obviously because you're too cool and not because you don't actually have a deep enough understanding to be able to explain it in layman's terms.

Its been explained in laymans terms. I've posted ad nauseam about all of the common rubbish in this thread; you just still don't get it. When you're still talking about intrinsic value, ponzis and environmental concerns like this:

thegentleway said:

Bitcoin just sits there and you're hoping someone will buy it from you for silly money despite the environmental concerns.
We can sidetrack and talk about crypto projects if you want. They do very little. Despite all the hype and amusing jargon to make it sound technical, it's mostly unsubstanciated claims with no actual working novel system. 

It just tells us that there's no point bothering with you. These concerns were all addressed in 2017 (and earlier in many cases) when they *might* have actually been relevant. Honestly, on some level, I believe Bitcoin is a general intelligence test.

To be fair some of the anti crypto comments from the haters/trolls don't deserve much response but that's not an excuse to brush everything to the side instead of adding any substance.
Intrisic value: I agree it's not necessarily an issue (e.g. dollar bills don't have intrisic value but work as money). Someone asked what's the difference between investing in shares and bitcoin. Bitcoin just sits there whilst companies produce goods and services. You seem to have confused intrinsic value with generating cash/value.

Ponzis: Don't think I've brought this up, if I did it would be just to highlight that there are a disproportinate number of scams and ponzi schemes so it's important to be careful. There are also scams and ponzis elsewhere. Like intrisic value, I agree, it's not a deal breaker for investing.

Environmental concerns: you can play smoke and mirrors with claims about renewable energy but that does not address the ridiculous amount of energy usage wastage. Bitcoin uses an obscene amount of energy. Obviously it's easier to say I just don't get it and call me stupid. However, that says a lot more about you than it does about my general intelligence.

Malthusian

HansOndabush said:

New Bitcoin Pizza company won't accept bitcoin as payment; ha ha what a joke this thing is:

https://www.businessinsider.in/cryptocurrency/news/crypto-investor-anthony-pompliano-launches-a-bitcoin-themed-pizza-service-in-the-us-that-wont-accept-the-digital-asset-as-payment/articleshow/82766763.cms

Of course he doesn't. Nobody who owns Bitcoin would be daft enough to pay for pizza in Bitcoin.

Why would anyone give away their Bitcoin for a pizza instead of hodling it while it goes to the moon? Especially when there are still schmucks who will give you pizza if you offload some worthless fiat currency to them?

Do you want to be like that guy back in 2010 who handed over 10,000 BTC for a couple of pizzas?

Outside the odd publicity stunt, people only hand over Bitcoins for goods and services if it's undesirable to do it with fiat (i.e. they're illegal). Pizzas don't qualify.

As it always needs to be said: attaching a Bitcoin -> fiat processor to your checkout software and letting someone pay a third party to convert their Bitcoins into fiat before you get paid in fiat != accepting Bitcoins.