BITCOIN

Atlas234

Malthusian said:

Atlas234 said:

Malthusian said:

lozzy1965 said:
Isn't that true of any investment?

No. Dividends and interest on shares and loans issued by businesses, for example, are paid from money which comes from businesses adding value to their inputs and generating profits. Profits don't always happen but that is the hope, and if you diversify properly, it becomes an expectation rather than a hope.

Those profits entering the equation means it is not a closed system.

Bitcoins do nothing, and generate no profits. The only money in comes from other punters. It is a closed system.

Atlas234 said:

Coins have valuation based on their current market capitalisation

There is no such thing as market capitalisation for a crypto token. Nobody is going to buy every single Bitcoin in existence for $40,000 each. By contrast there is a material possibility of a business being bought out for its market cap or something around that figure.

Dividends are paid in the form of staking rewards and interest

Which come from where?

In the absence of a business adding value to its inputs and generating profits, punters' money in == punters' money out. How that money is shuffled around is irrelevant.

Transactions fees are taken from payment services, these are redistributed to coin holders as staking rewards just the same as trading profits are redistributed to share holders through dividends

Taking a transaction fee from tokens moved from punter A to punter B and paying it to punter C = punters' money. Punters' money in == punters' money out.

This is not the same as a business adding value to its inputs and selling its outputs for a profit.

Taking some punters' money already in the system and giving it a new name (staking, burning, transaction fees, whatever) doesn't turn it into an external input.

The banks make enough profits moving money from one entity to another... There are many for profit companies in crypto and many other use cases other than just payments

thegentleway

Atlas234 said:

Bitcoin is proof of work, the others are hardly obscure, cardano, polkadot and many many other are pos, ethereum is practically unusable under its current pow iteration, with the huge fees, they are in the middle of transitioning to etgereum 2.0 which will be pos

It is obscure AF. Whilst most people have heard of bitcoin, nobody has heard of Ada.

thegentleway

Atlas234 said:

Malthusian said:

Atlas234 said:

Malthusian said:

lozzy1965 said:
Isn't that true of any investment?

No. Dividends and interest on shares and loans issued by businesses, for example, are paid from money which comes from businesses adding value to their inputs and generating profits. Profits don't always happen but that is the hope, and if you diversify properly, it becomes an expectation rather than a hope.

Those profits entering the equation means it is not a closed system.

Bitcoins do nothing, and generate no profits. The only money in comes from other punters. It is a closed system.

Atlas234 said:

Coins have valuation based on their current market capitalisation

There is no such thing as market capitalisation for a crypto token. Nobody is going to buy every single Bitcoin in existence for $40,000 each. By contrast there is a material possibility of a business being bought out for its market cap or something around that figure.

Dividends are paid in the form of staking rewards and interest

Which come from where?

In the absence of a business adding value to its inputs and generating profits, punters' money in == punters' money out. How that money is shuffled around is irrelevant.

Transactions fees are taken from payment services, these are redistributed to coin holders as staking rewards just the same as trading profits are redistributed to share holders through dividends

Taking a transaction fee from tokens moved from punter A to punter B and paying it to punter C = punters' money. Punters' money in == punters' money out.

This is not the same as a business adding value to its inputs and selling its outputs for a profit.

Taking some punters' money already in the system and giving it a new name (staking, burning, transaction fees, whatever) doesn't turn it into an external input.

The banks make enough profits moving money from one entity to another... There are many for profit companies in crypto and many other use cases other than just payments

No probs with profits. The point is that it's nothing like the stock market, where listed companies receive money from customers who don't have to be shareholders in that company in order to buy the goods/services. Money is flowing into the stock market that isn't from the investors.

Atlas234

thegentleway said:

Atlas234 said:

Bitcoin is proof of work, the others are hardly obscure, cardano, polkadot and many many other are pos, ethereum is practically unusable under its current pow iteration, with the huge fees, they are in the middle of transitioning to etgereum 2.0 which will be pos

It is obscure AF. Whilst most people have heard of bitcoin, nobody has heard of Ada.

If people are putting money into crypto, I would imagine they would look at a broader section of the market than just the top one, but you are right bitcoin is by far the biggest and most popular. 
In regards to the other post, yes at the moment the number of things you can do with crypto are limited I fully agree, but it is still very early stages, there are crypto mortgages in the works, there are talks of a digital euro on the xrp block chain and other national currencies on the Stella block chain, there are block chains like vet focusing on enterprise level supply chain solutions. The options, uses and adoption grow every day

masonic

thegentleway said:

Atlas234 said:

Malthusian said:

lozzy1965 said:
Isn't that true of any investment?

No. Dividends and interest on shares and loans issued by businesses, for example, are paid from money which comes from businesses adding value to their inputs and generating profits. Profits don't always happen but that is the hope, and if you diversify properly, it becomes an expectation rather than a hope.

Those profits entering the equation means it is not a closed system.

Bitcoins do nothing, and generate no profits. The only money in comes from other punters. It is a closed system.

Atlas234 said:

Coins have valuation based on their current market capitalisation

There is no such thing as market capitalisation for a crypto token. Nobody is going to buy every single Bitcoin in existence for $40,000 each. By contrast there is a material possibility of a business being bought out for its market cap or something around that figure.

Dividends are paid in the form of staking rewards and interest

Which come from where?

In the absence of a business adding value to its inputs and generating profits, punters' money in == punters' money out. How that money is shuffled around is irrelevant.

Transactions fees are taken from payment services, these are redistributed to coin holders as staking rewards just the same as trading profits are redistributed to share holders through dividends

Only on obscure altcoins using proof of stake, not Bitcoin/Ethereum. Stake rewards are more tokens whereas dividends aren’t more shares...

Ethereum is moving to PoS. PoW has no future.

https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/consensus-mechanisms/pos/

mrlegend123

I said months ago that BITCOIN would crash. I've had the last laugh with fake gold holders. 

Scottex99

Yeah it’s crashed pretty hard from less than a cent to $35k in its lifetime

thegentleway

Atlas234 said:

thegentleway said:

Atlas234 said:

Bitcoin is proof of work, the others are hardly obscure, cardano, polkadot and many many other are pos, ethereum is practically unusable under its current pow iteration, with the huge fees, they are in the middle of transitioning to etgereum 2.0 which will be pos

It is obscure AF. Whilst most people have heard of bitcoin, nobody has heard of Ada.

If people are putting money into crypto, I would imagine they would look at a broader section of the market than just the top one, but you are right bitcoin is by far the biggest and most popular. 
In regards to the other post, yes at the moment the number of things you can do with crypto are limited I fully agree, but it is still very early stages, there are crypto mortgages in the works, there are talks of a digital euro on the xrp block chain and other national currencies on the Stella block chain, there are block chains like vet focusing on enterprise level supply chain solutions. The options, uses and adoption grow every day

You would imagine but all the money is in Bitcoin and a bit in Ethereum which are both PoW so I suspect our imagination is wrong. It seems people are trying to get rich quick. It’s hardly surprising, most people don’t do any research into the stocks they buy (I include myself as I buy funds).  
Agreed about potential/early stages. It requires mass adoption and it will be interesting to see which, if any, protocols make it. 

thegentleway

mrlegend123 said:

I said months ago that BITCOIN would crash. I've had the last laugh with fake gold holders. 

Well done bro, you are a legend! Did you short it and make mega bucks or are you just gloating? 

DireEmblem

I cant see bitcoin disappearing anytime soon, but I do like collecting all the free bitcoin and variations.  Who knows they might be worth something some day!