BITCOIN

Zola.

Yes - you are wrong. 

Bitcoin is a very simple protocol (like TCP/IP), on which layers are built. These days, everyday, small transactions probably shouldn't be conducted on the base layer, unless you want to wait about 10 minutes for it to settle. 

The Bitcoin Lightning Network is capable of processing 1,000,000 transactions per second

The absurd claims comparing a single transaction's energy usage to Argentina (or insert another nation state), is frankly so laughable, inaccurate and misconstrued, that it's not even worth discussing. Links have been provided many times before on this. Yet the same nonsense keeps getting spouted by parrots who only read mainstream media headlines and cant do their own due diligence. If you cant do this then I suspect there is no hope for you.

Heres a helping hand
https://hbr.org/2021/05/how-much-energy-does-bitcoin-actually-consume

Malthusian

But transactions on the Lightning network have to be updated on the blockchain eventually (although you don't have to update every transaction, just the final position of a series of transactions). At which point the 3.3-7 transactions per second applies.

And the longer you spend trading Bitcoins in dark pools on the Lightning network, the less protection you have from Bitcoin's impregnable blockchain which seems to defeat the entire point.

It is a bit like defending the slowness and unwieldiness of cheques by saying "yeah but you can exchange them for cash at Cash Converters". That makes the process faster for you but someone else still has to cash the cheque.

And the fundamental problem is still finding a problem for Bitcoin to solve, not solving Bitcoin's problems by layering another system on top, so that it can become slightly less bad at transmitting money from A to B than noobcoin fiat payment networks.

Zola.

Of course it remains to be seen where this all goes long term. Few people predicted the power of the lightning network 10 years ago and it is steadily being developed further.

A cafe in El Salvador may opt to keep most of their trade in one, or several lightning wallets long term... or somewhere else. As LN is developed further and we get things like robust channel factories, settlement back on the base layer becomes more and more the special case rather than the norm. The base layer is there, and can be used to resolve disputes, but if there's no dispute, that channel can go on living forever.

A cheque takes days to clear. Debit card payments takes days to clear. Last month I sold some of my restricted stock units that my employer gave me, to get the funds sent from the US to my UK bank account took over 5 working days. 

A lightning transaction takes a millisecond... An on-chain Bitcoin transaction takes about 10 mins to fully settle..

Which system is too slow and outdated again?

Reaper

This thread suddenly went quiet. I wonder if it is related to the current market capitulation, demonstrating once again its volatility and its unsuitability as a currency.

Adyinvestment

--Classy--

bugbyte_2

Not going to kick investors when they are down, hope noone has lost money they cannot afford to lose - genuine question - If the price stays below $24K (currently $23K) I have read somewhere mining becomes economically unviable - so what happens then? Do the equations to be solved to create new blockchain automatically get easier and less energy intensive? For those who work in countries, the energy drop this week equates to a saving of one Ireland, which I guess is a positive.

ZeroSum

bugbyte_2 said:

Not going to kick investors when they are down, hope noone has lost money they cannot afford to lose - genuine question - If the price stays below $24K (currently $23K) I have read somewhere mining becomes economically unviable - so what happens then? Do the equations to be solved to create new blockchain automatically get easier and less energy intensive? For those who work in countries, the energy drop this week equates to a saving of one Ireland, which I guess is a positive.

Investors? Bitcoin has never been an "investment" its gamblers gambling, they knew the risks 

jasonwatkins

Recent events have shown me why I should never, ever, go anywhere near Bitcoin.

I bought on the 10th of June through Revolut when it was at £23.7k.   Then the crash happened.   When it hit £20k I was pretty heavily down so thought I might as well punt and bail out to re-buy at £20k.  I figured that if it recovered back to the £27-£28k mark it was last week I'd at least claw back some, or most, of my losses.

It just continued to fall so I eventually decided to cut my losses at £17k and bail out for good.   And then it started to climb again and it's currently back to about £18.8k and, knowing my luck, will probably continue to recover throughout the day.

I'm pretty heavily down but at least it's money I could afford to lose, even though I hate losing money.

(And yes, I'm fully aware that I handled all of this very poorly .. )

Zola.

bugbyte_2 said:

Not going to kick investors when they are down, hope noone has lost money they cannot afford to lose - genuine question - If the price stays below $24K (currently $23K) I have read somewhere mining becomes economically unviable - so what happens then? Do the equations to be solved to create new blockchain automatically get easier and less energy intensive? For those who work in countries, the energy drop this week equates to a saving of one Ireland, which I guess is a positive.

That is correct - there is a difficulty adjustment that happens every 2 weeks as appropriate. 

Paradoxically the hash rate has been at all time highs which means miners are still working away... 

This has the hallmarks of sh*tcoin casinos like Celsius doing fraction reserve lending and when they have been called out to pay many they can't and there is a cascading panic and auto sell orders etc. This needs tightened up with regulation. Also a lesson... Not your keys. Not your coins. 

Its a strange old time for sure. 

Im now down significantly obviously, but for me it's a longer term play to at least until 2026 and I am not in any way stressed.... Because I have never invested more in bitcoin with money that I need in the nearer future... 

Those all in (there are many), I feel a bit sick for.  But it will rise again... 

HCIMbtw

jasonwatkins said:

Recent events have shown me why I should never, ever, go anywhere near Bitcoin.

I bought on the 10th of June through Revolut when it was at £23.7k.   Then the crash happened.   When it hit £20k I was pretty heavily down so thought I might as well punt and bail out to re-buy at £20k.  I figured that if it recovered back to the £27-£28k mark it was last week I'd at least claw back some, or most, of my losses.

It just continued to fall so I eventually decided to cut my losses at £17k and bail out for good.   And then it started to climb again and it's currently back to about £18.8k and, knowing my luck, will probably continue to recover throughout the day.

I'm pretty heavily down but at least it's money I could afford to lose, even though I hate losing money.

(And yes, I'm fully aware that I handled all of this very poorly .. )

Consider it a lesson learned for if you have the appetite for it or not