BITCOIN

chucknorris

Why do some of you guys seem to take investing so personal? You almost treat it as if you are rival football team supporters! (I'm giving some leeway here, because I consider BTC much more speculation than investing, but then speculation is also a form of investment too, so its back in the fold). What I mean is, I don't give a !!!!!! how much money you have made, I only care what I have made, it isn't a competition! It's about securing your own future, if you have made £50m and I have made only £6.5m, and that is more than enough for me (which it is), then I really don't give a !!!!!! (in a nice way) that you have more than me, as long as I have achieved my goal.

adindas

Malthusian said:

adindas said:

What probably some people are not aware of because they keep living in their own compound is that there are REASONABLE number of active retail investors constantly get 30%+ year after year. So expecting to get the return of 30%+ is not like expecting people to make you living forever. Thanks to major cryptos, good high growth stock, near zero fee platform for trading and investing such as eToro, Trading 212, Robinhood, Freetrade, WeBull, Stake, MooMoo, etc.

If you can find enough bros who think it's reasonable to lose a sum equivalent to a third of your hodlings every year, year in year out, solely so that you can get rich quick, then all power to you. Punters' money in == punters' money out.

FAOD, if you can invest a mere £10,000 at age 30 and cash out just shy of £2 million at 50, or just under £100 million at 65, that = getting rich quick.

MATT DAMON!

The dialogue between Malthusian vs Cornucopian vs has been going on and on and has never ended.

Similarly, the dialogue between flat earther and round earther. 

You believe what you want to believe.  There are a lot of evidence retailer traders who actively investing/trading making return of 30%+  in the last couples of years. You will need to find out yourself, but do not call me a liar. The reason why you do not know this because you might keep living in your own compound and do not want to see or learn what the other people are doing.

Has the proliferation of near zero platform such as eToro, Trading 212, Robinhood, Freetrade, WeBull, Stake, MooMoo, been started about 20-30 years ago. 

When is the fourth industrial revolution featured in high growth stocks started, is it 20-30 years ago ??

Also £2 million looks a lot in the current value but in 20-30 years time might not as much as you think due to time value money.

Also is the market cycle bullish all the time ?? Do you think the people are naïve want to take a significant risk to invest in high growth stock during the prolonged bearish market where the market is against you and the risk is significantly higher than the reward you might get??

Do you think the people who invest in cryptos want to keep DCA during the cycle of crypto winter??

bugbyte_2

adindas said:

It took me sometimes to find it out but you have got do something preventing people might call you a liar. Just imagine when the original poster has deleted his original post. I will remain as a liar in this thread

The second point is another dialogue of the deaf. I will just throw out these buzzwords.

............

I am not saying everyone could figure it out. But the final phrase is that “Fortune favours the brave” like this video clip featured with Matt Damon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hBC5TVdYT8

Thank you. You managed to find one post from 30th July from one poster 50 pages ago, where you completely and quite spectacularly missed the point they were making. Clearly not a liar then.

Thank you also for the Matt Damon clip, however I prefer to take my financial advice from Wil Wheaton. 

 

bugbyte_2

You do know that Matt Damon was making an advert for a crypto company and being paid to do this? They are not necessarily his personal views. You do know this? 

adindas

bugbyte_2 said:

Thank you. You managed to find one post from 30th July from one poster 50 pages ago, where you completely and quite spectacularly missed the point they were making. Clearly not a liar then.

Thank you also for the Matt Damon clip, however I prefer to take my financial advice from Wil Wheaton. 

You do know that Matt Damon was making an advert for a crypto company and being paid to do this? They are not necessarily his personal views. You do know this? 

Higly insensible comment like

"I prefer to take my financial advice from Wil Wheaton" ,

"They are not necessarily his personal views. You do know this? "

Sensible people and even children should have noticed from the beginning that this video clip is an advertisement. Do you really think that the people would take financial advice from Matt Damon??

Also are you even aware that this video clip has been posted on this thread before??

It is it the message that he conveys “Fortune Favour the brave” that is the  reason why some people are making <1% a year while other people are making that in kess than a week. BTC provides a return of  (+7,734.91%) within five years. I know the feeling of missing the gravy train, missing the boat ...

tebbins

adindas said:

bugbyte_2 said:

Thank you. You managed to find one post from 30th July from one poster 50 pages ago, where you completely and quite spectacularly missed the point they were making. Clearly not a liar then.

Thank you also for the Matt Damon clip, however I prefer to take my financial advice from Wil Wheaton. 

You do know that Matt Damon was making an advert for a crypto company and being paid to do this? They are not necessarily his personal views. You do know this? 

Higly insensible comment like

"I prefer to take my financial advice from Wil Wheaton" ,

"They are not necessarily his personal views. You do know this? "

Sensible people and even children should have noticed from the beginning that this video clip is an advertisement. Do you really think that the people would take financial advice from Matt Damon??

Also are you even aware that this video clip has been posted on this thread before??

It is it the message that he conveys “Fortune Favour the brave” that is the  reason why some people are making <1% a year while other people are making that in kess than a week. BTC provides a return of  (+7,734.91%) within five years. I know the feeling of missing the gravy train, missing the boat ...

"Provides" and "making that in less than a week" implies you believe this is continuous, which is also inconsistent with the whole point of BTC as its own currency, in which case the return is 0.

Malthusian

adindas said:

The dialogue between Malthusian vs Cornucopian vs has been going on and on and has never ended.

Similarly, the dialogue between flat earther and round earther.

Very true. But the world has always been round, even when the flat earthers had conviningly won the argument, and always will be. Similarly punters' money in always == punters' money out.

Malthusianism vs Cornucopianism works slightly differently in that Malthusians have the advantage of an unfalsifiable argument - "disaster may not have happened yet but it will one day, just you wait". Another example of an unfalsifiable argument is "Bitcoin may not have gone to $100,000 when I said it would, or the time I said it would before that, but it will eventually".

You believe what you want to believe.  There are a lot of evidence retailer traders who actively investing/trading making return of 30%+  in the last couples of years. You will need to find out yourself, but do not call me a liar. The reason why you do not know this because you might keep living in your own compound and do not want to see or learn what the other people are doing.

Yes, I've seen the Instagram videos. It's a case of don't care, not don't know. It is not impressive that if millions of bros worldwide try to get rich quick by playing the stockmarket or the crypto market, some of them will generate a return of 30% in a year, or even two years running. If you get a thousand rats and wire their cages up to a stockmarket ticker and a button that buys and sells shares, many of them will generate over 30% in a year, and a handful will do it two years running.

There is no evidence that anyone can consistently beat the market, let alone generate 30%pa.

Has the proliferation of near zero platform such as eToro, Trading 212, Robinhood, Freetrade, WeBull, Stake, MooMoo, been started about 20-30 years ago.

If you're generating 30%pa why would you use a kiddies' trading platform like Robinhood? Don't you remember when the Gamestop pump-and-dump was going on, and bros were complaining that they missed out on the chance to get rich because Robinhood crashed and they couldn't hit the "buy" button when they intended to? There was talk of class action lawsuits (which went nowhere).

If you're serious about generating 30%pa from share trading you would pay for a proper trading platform with up-to-the-nanosecond capability like those used by City and Wall Street traders. Not one run on a shoestring that can be expected to crash the moment there is actually an opportunity for the man on the street to fill his boots (as it did last time). The fees would be irrelevant to someone generating 30%pa.

Using Robinhood to try to generate returns of 30%pa is like joining the California gold rush with a plastic bucket and spade.

If all this stuff started 20-30 years ago, but 2-3 decades later most of the world's wealth is still in the hands of established capitalists, oligarchs and the handful of entrepreneurs who got rich by bringing a rare and valuable product to market, same as it has been for the last 500 years, then I think it is fair to say that the Fourth Industrial Revolution has had its chance to make the little guy rich and bring down Wall Street, and comprehensively failed.

MATT DAMON!

HCIMbtw

Couple of challenges I have with the way you frame your argument malthusian, you refer to claims other media shills make about BTC projections, but apply these as a generality for all people who invest 

Media has always been at the more extreme end to geenrate clicks and there is room for moderate thinking and modelling as well, while backing crypto. 

There are legitimate ways for people to regularly return rates close to 30% with little risk (aside from the lack of regulation/platform) primarily related to arbitrage. They are just a pain in the backside to understand and set up, and over the coming years the spread related to these opportunities will narrow. Darren covered a number of them pretty comprehensively in the crypto dabble thread. 

On GME, that show is not completely over, sure some courts have thrown out class actions on the basis citing that message exchanges between citadel and RH were suspicious but not enough to prosecute. But there is no denying the impact of closing down buying ability on the main retail investor exchanges and I think the retail investors involved have some right to feel aggrieved by the manipulation.

On your point around speed of exchanges, I actually think there is where some layer one blockchain technology has some interesting potential, around speed of payment and potential integration for exchange services, maybe not even for retailers but for institutions or the exchanges themselves. 

On your point about wealth accumulation among a few, i'd like to put forward a suggestion that this is not all 'rare' 'valuable' product, but a big part of at least part of it of the back of global developed world fiscal policy. 

Thrugelmir

HCIMbtw said:

On your point about wealth accumulation among a few, i'd like to put forward a suggestion that this is not all 'rare' 'valuable' product, but a big part of at least part of it of the back of global developed world fiscal policy. 

Nah. Boils down to personal greed and wanting the biggest share of the pie possible for oneself. Two takes to trade. Not a onesided bet that many assume it to be. 

adindas

If you're serious about generating 30%pa from share trading you would pay for a proper trading platform with up-to-the-nanosecond capability like those used by City and Wall Street traders. Not one run on a shoestring that can be expected to crash the moment there is actually an opportunity for the man on the street to fill his boots (as it did last time). The fees would be irrelevant to someone generating 30%pa.

Another dialogue of the deaf.
That comment shows very little understanding of the reality on the ground.

The hedgies get multi  billion US$ in their custodies, not all necceseraliy their own money. Majority of the active retailer traders/investors have less than a  hundred  thousand usd; in rare case  a million and they are using their own money. Also keep in mind the hedgies get a special deal with brokers, market makers as they buy shares in bulk quantities.Only clueless will say you need up-to-the-nanosecond execution. Even profesional, hedgies hardly ever need such an lightning speed execution. Unless of course if they are using robot to trade on a special even, occasions.

Regarding the fees, do you even know how the fees work in active investing/trading ?? The fees for share dealing, and how many times the people are doing share dealing in a month ?

The fees for share dealing with Hargreaves Lansdown (HL) for instance is $11.95 per deal, not to mention the currency fees, exchange rate, the spread.  You get charged on both ways when you open and when you close your position so you will need to double that. Is $11.95 per share dealing + other fees is insignificant when you  are doing multiple share dealing in a week / day ???? Now  Do your own math !!!!  Are you still saying insignificant ???

Only the clueless can not see this elephant on the room than you will need to understand this first before making decision of doing an active investing / trading. You pay almost nothing and you could do share dealing as many as you want and you do not get or very little charge with near zero trading platform.

It is only when you doe the Passive investing, invest and forget style like investing in index funds, multi diversified multi assets fund the fees are less irrelevant.
Regarding Robinhood many retail traders especially those affiliated with WSB have now moved their platform to another near zero fee platform. Some of them are even shorting the HOOD stock. In the past you do not have much option but nowadays more option are available. Many major platforms such as IBKR recently start revising theirs fee structure to be more friendly to retail traders. Some traders who used to use RH has moved from RH to IBKR.

The near zero fee trading platforms are making, the wealth distribution more even. Just see what happen with reasonable number of short squeeze case like GME, AMC, to Citadel, Melvin Capital. Michael Burry for trying shorting Tesla.

This is just an example:

https://libredd.it/r/amcstock/comments/o9izc1/heggies_lost_12b_since_the_staring_of_this_year/