BITCOIN

adindas

Section62 said:

adindas said:

If you offer to someone to choose either a voucher of full English breakfast value of £25 or one bitcoin (£0 based on some people on this thread), which one do you think the ordinary people will be chosing ??? Keep in mind you could not eat BTC but you could sell it for about US$50,000 and there are a lot of other people want to buy it.

This is very much a false dichotomy.  The two things are not comparable.  $50,000 is clearly worth more than £25, but then you could say the same thing about other options.

Which would you choose, £25 full English breakfast voucher, or €44,000?  A £25 full English breakfast voucher, or 24,333 BT.A shares?

At the point of making the bargain one side is very clearly worth very substantially more.  The only people who might be tempted by the £25 full English breakfast voucher might be those desperate for food, or those who make a decision that the breakfast is worth more to them personally at this point in time than the potential wealth offered by the alternatives.

It isn't clear what point you were trying to make, but you aren't making an argument in favour of Bitcoin. Anyone who isn't starving hungry would be better off taking the Bitcoin and then selling it immediately, and using some of the proceeds to buy breakfast.

So we could add to the equation that someone might decline the Bitcoin offer because they don't believe they could turn it into the asset/currency of their choice quickly enough to still end up with a value of £25.  You are presenting a binary (no pun intended) choice when really there are many choices and outcomes.

A gift or payment of a certain value at a particular moment in time is not 'proof' of something's worth vs a different thing.

Moreover, what "ordinary people" would spend £25 on a full English breakfast?  Ones who need to do some MSE learning perhaps?

adindas said:

I believe it is only the people who never read the news those who still believe that the flat is earth will choose the full english breakfast. The other people who might think they have missed the boat and in no way they would want to buy BTC at the current price but would like to have them if someone was offering it for £25. rofl

You keep on about 'flat earthers' and what Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger say - but nobody in these threads is making the comments you are talking about.

Nobody.

It is a really strange way to make an argument in favour of Bitcoin/Crypto.... what is it you are hoping to achieve here?

In the meantime it is coming across as if you are trying to insult other non-specific forum members.  If you have a point to make it would be good if you could make it... because going on about 'flat earthers' and Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger are giving the discussion a bit of a toxic vibe, which doesn't do any of us any good.

Edit: "dialogue of the deaf" is also insulting and derogatory, please find an alternative expression in future. Thanks.

Well, the point I make here is that there are some people said BTC does not have any value, blindly following WB and CM opinion in the previous poster that I have shown.

So, in my previous post I propose a test, to choose either a full English breakfast voucher with value of £25.00 or one bitcoin BTC. To me and some people on this thread believe BTC has value although is not the value in traditional way like food that every people could understand.So, for those whose said BTC is worthless no value the  BTC should be valued at £0.00.

Everyone could see £25 is definitely bigger than £0. So, for those who think BTC is worthless, does not have any value and you have been presented that choice, you should have chosen a full English breakfast voucher with value of  £25. I fail to understand what is derogatory here when it is just a logical comparison, testing.

IvanOpinion

OMG Mr Goxx is dead, how will people know when to buy and sell crypto?
On the plus side Mrs Roxx, a beloved sea cucumber has applied for the job.

HHarry

adindas said:

Everyone could see £25 is definitely bigger than £0. So, for those who think BTC is worthless, does not have any value and you have been presented that choice, you should have chosen a full English breakfast voucher with value of  £25. I fail to understand what is derogatory here when it is just a logical comparison, testing.

Bitcoin has a price, currently around £40k, and so yes anyone would take the Bitcoin over breakfast.

But does Bitcoin have ‘value’. I don’t think so in the traditional sense like shares (future earnings) or gold (industrial usage).  There may be some uses for Blockchain technology in the future, but does that mean that Bitcoin itself has value?

(And my honest answer is that I don’t understand whether Bitcoin is an integral part of the usefulness of the blockchain, or just an easy to use function that shows how the system works)

Section62

adindas said:

Well, the point I make here is that there are some people said BTC does not have any value, blindly following WB and CM opinion in the previous poster that I have shown.

This is the problem.  You are failing to accept and acknowledge that people can form and hold their own opinions independently of others.  It is insulting to suggest that other forum members are not so capable, by suggesting or implying that they are 'blindly following' some famous person you clearly have a very negative view of.

adindas said:

So, in my previous post I propose a test, to choose either a full English breakfast voucher with value of £25.00 or one bitcoin BTC. To me and some people on this thread believe BTC has value although is not the value in traditional way like food that every people could understand.So, for those whose said BTC is worthless no value the  BTC should be valued at £0.00.

Everyone could see £25 is definitely bigger than £0. So, for those who think BTC is worthless, does not have any value and you have been presented that choice, you should have chosen a full English breakfast voucher with value of  £25.

It's a false test though.  It doesn't prove what you think it does.

Also, the logic being used by the people who say Bitcoin has no value applies in equal terms to the "full English breakfast voucher".  The voucher is worthless if the restaurant isn't open when you want to use it, or the business has gone bankrupt.  To comply with the law in certain cases the voucher might have the words "Coupon value 0.01p" (or similar) printed on it, which also makes the point that you don't have £25 in your hands.  If you can't exchange the voucher for a breakfast then you have a piece of paper worth whatever the rate is for recycled paper.

And someone opting to take the Bitcoin instead of the voucher faces exactly the same risk, without even the benefit of a piece of recyclable paper.

The choice between them becomes a judgement of which option involves higher risks of ending up with zero value for the bargain.

adindas said:

I fail to understand what is derogatory here when it is just a logical comparison, testing.

The phrase you use implies that people who are hearing impaired (or 'deaf') are incapable of having meaningful dialogue.  Which is obviously untrue, and should be self-evidently so when the dialogue going on in this forum is entirely in written (and graphical) form.

strawb_shortcake

adindas said:

Everyone knows that staples, food have value because you could eat it. Some people on here said that BTC do not value, a few people are referring to what Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger are saying

 

The discussion has been going on and on and have turned to become the dialogue of the deaf. On one hand people see the value of BTC on traditional ways such as staples, food. On the other hand, other people see the value in non-traditional way, for instance to see what blockchain could do in the future to increase efficiency, smart contract, land certificate to distribute wealth free from politics and government intervention, etc. Keep in mind efficiency could always be converted to a more tangible values in term of money equivalent. That is the way the industrial revolution changes the life and creating wealth. This is the way Amazon, FB (Meta Platform) creating value. In the past how much would it cost you to send message in no time, to get item, videos on your living room in no time ?? Invaluable, if it was possible to have it in the past. This is unrealised value that later become a reality that some people can not see. What is the current value of gene therapy, mapping, sequencing currently doing nothing to human. But what if they have turned out to be able to cure deseases which is currently incurable ??

Now those who think that BTC do not have value (e.g., £0). This is a teasing test.

If you offer to someone to choose either a voucher of full English breakfast value of £25 or one bitcoin (£0 based on some people on this thread), which one do you think the ordinary people will be chosing ??? Keep in mind you could not eat BTC but you could sell it for about US$50,000 and there are a lot of other people want to buy it.

I believe it is only the people who never read the news those who still believe that the flat is earth will choose the full english breakfast. The other people who might think they have missed the boat and in no way they would want to buy BTC at the current price but would like to have them if someone was offering it for £25. rofl

Wouldn't the  better question be would the common person pick a £40k tangible asset or a £40k intangible asset? 
Between one cooked breakfast and BTC I'd take a punt on the BTC but a £40k wad of cash or one BTC I'd probably take the cash.

I hope no real opinion on BTC, but I don't feel I've missed the boat and have no regrets on not holding any. Though I'm not a fan of the for us or against us mentality that seems to dominate the Crypto debate

Scottex99

Wouldn't the  better question be would the common person pick a £40k tangible asset or a £40k intangible asset? 
Between one cooked breakfast and BTC I'd take a punt on the BTC but a £40k wad of cash or one BTC I'd probably take the cash.

I hope no real opinion on BTC, but I don't feel I've missed the boat and have no regrets on not holding any. Though I'm not a fan of the for us or against us mentality that seems to dominate the Crypto debate

Yep.

£40k in cash or 1.1 BTC, 10% bonus for coming over and converting to the dark side.

I'd take the coins... Hedge against inflation, might do a 5/10x one day in the future, can earn 40k from salary whenever, blah blah blah

adindas

annabanana82 said:

Wouldn't the  better question be would the common person pick a £40k tangible asset or a £40k intangible asset? 
Between one cooked breakfast and BTC I'd take a punt on the BTC but a £40k wad of cash or one BTC I'd probably take the cash.

I hope no real opinion on BTC, but I don't feel I've missed the boat and have no regrets on not holding any. Though I'm not a fan of the for us or against us mentality that seems to dominate the Crypto debate

annabanana82

That is a different matter. In your view BTC worth around £40K. For someone who thinks BTC is worthless the value should be £0, is it not?

Would you like to buy or exchange something with no value at all (worthless) ? Say exchanging a stone that people just pick up from the street with something valuable valued @£40k, say gold, silver or other form of assets like antique, artwork, expensive painting? Of course not.

I propose even much lower value of £25 (not £40k, like the way you value BTC). Everyone could see £25 is definitely bigger than £0. So, for those who think BTC is worthless does not have any value (e.g £0) and you have been presented that choice, you would have chosen a full English breakfast voucher worth of £25.

The fact that you choose BTC over one English breakfast suggest that in your view BTC has value at least £25+, not worthless.

Like famous hearsay do not invest the thing you do not understand.

strawb_shortcake

adindas said:

annabanana82 said:

Wouldn't the  better question be would the common person pick a £40k tangible asset or a £40k intangible asset? 
Between one cooked breakfast and BTC I'd take a punt on the BTC but a £40k wad of cash or one BTC I'd probably take the cash.

I hope no real opinion on BTC, but I don't feel I've missed the boat and have no regrets on not holding any. Though I'm not a fan of the for us or against us mentality that seems to dominate the Crypto debate

annabanana82

That is a different matter. In your view BTC worth around £40K. For someone who think BTC is worthless the value should be £0, is it not clear?

Would you like to buy or exchange something with no value at all (worthless) with something valuable valued @£40k (say gold)? Of course not.

I propose even much lower value of £25 (not £40k, like the way you value BTC). Everyone could see £25 is definitely bigger than £0. So, for those who think BTC is worthless does not have any value (e.g £0) and you have been presented that choice, you should have chosen a full English breakfast voucher worth of £25.

The fact that you choose BTC over one English breakfast suggest that in your view BTC has value at least over £25+, not worthless.

Like famous hearsay do not invest the thing you do not understand.

I don't think it necessarily comes down to valuing BTC at any particular value or not. I never said I think it's worth £40k just what I read in another comment. But I understand the current reported value is around £40k and what I would assume it currently trades at.

Most people I think would gamble a breakfast against an opportunity of the unknown they'll hedge their bets, they don't have to believe in the opportunity to take it, and I don't think it proves any particular point if they do take it.

I think the ones that will value the breakfast higher are the truly starving, the gluttonous and the ones that don't comprehend the offer.

Aegis

I'd take the BTC, sell it and use some of the proceeds to go for a nice breakfast, investing the rest with my portfolio.  Just because I don't think BTC has any intrinsic value or method of calculating fair value doesn't mean that I am unaware that some people will pay what I think of as a ridiculous amount of money for one such token.  I just don't want to be such a person.

bugbyte_2

adindas said:

.......Some people on here said that BTC do not value, a few people are referring to what Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger are saying...........

Nope.

Just you.

Over 

and 

over

again.

P.S. Leave hearing impaired people alone.  


Also, stupid argument. No one has said that BTC cannot be swapped for whatever the current rate is. It clearly has a 'value' although its value is completely moot until the second you swap it for something tangible. Your life savings of £50 in BTC is not worth £50 until you swap it for 50 actual £. I cannot speak for anyone else but personally I think the only value BTC has is market sentiment - i.e. no underlying fundamentals to give it value. (and before you whittle on about Tesla not making a profit for years, fundamentals included projected future earnings). Therefore it has no real value outside what others will pay for it.

But that's ok because its my opinion. This does not mean I am deaf(? Ableist - it is 2021 you know) or have any other disability, believe in the earth being flat which appears to be a thing with you or suffer from FOMO. 

You are right (I think, its quite hard to follow your arguments) in so far that the technology has value and use but I believe Ethereum has superseded BTC, which just leaves BTC with its legacy value, which at some point people will start to realise. In any case the tech isn't the coins themselves in exactly the same way that owning a Fillet 'o' Fish does not mean you own a slice of McDonald's. If I were to invest it would be in the companies developing the tech not the coins. 

You also completely miss why and what people invest, but I CBA to extend this any further than it has to.