November 2020 international travel rules

mattyprice4004

Where I used to work could also delete call recordings that might land them in the brown stuff, wouldn’t surprise me if Ryanair did it too 

epm-84

CKhalvashi said:

Leodogger said:

cubegame said:

cubegame said:

Turns out that I will be making a flight tomorrow for genuine business reasons. It is only an internal flight but I will report back on the process and any checks.

So to report back.....I've flown from Bristol to Edinburgh this afternoon and the experience was actually no different from the four other occassions I have flown out of Bristol this year.

In getting on the plane I passed:-

1. Staff member asking people to keep moving past the temperature scanner in the tent outside the terminal.
2. Staff member at the door of the terminal asking if I was a departing passenger.
3. Three armed policeman lingering on the mezzanine near the boarding card check gates.
4. Two members of staff overseeing the boarding card check gates.
5. The security staff.
6. Two further armed policeman standing air side of security.
7. The gate staff.
8. The Easyjet cabin attendants.

The couple next to me in the security queue were heading (with their child in pushchair) to Gran Canaria and seemed to pass through equally unchallenged.

Well there will always be people who will push the borders of authority and don't give a kipper, but if they had been stopped it is a £1000 fine !   For example, if questioned how would that family prove they were going on business to Gran Canaria ?

Why business? They could have been buying a house or going to visit a place of worship, both of which they are allowed to do.

That has very strict restrictions attached to it.  You are certainly not allowed to visit a Cathedral for tourist purposes or allowed to attend a religious service, except if it's the funeral of a relative or the wedding or civil partnership of a terminally ill person.  You are allowed to enter a COVID secure place of worship for private prayer but that has the same restrictions as daily exercise.  Do you really think you can argue that you need to go to Gran Canaria for your daily walk or for private prayer in a church?  As Spain is a Catholic country it'll be very difficult to argue you need to travel that far for your private prayer, given virtually even town in Britain has a Catholic church!

Nutty75

I still haven’t found the answer if our reason for travel is valid during this lockdown - we have a property in Tenerife that we are hoping to rent out - but before we can rent it - we have a few plumbing issues to sort - and as my husband is a plumber he is carrying out these works himself.   The second reason is that we have been advised to have a Spanish Will drawn up so we have an appointment with our spanish Lawyer to go and sign the Will . Our daughters were due to fly out with us - but as they would be going for a holiday I have cancelled their flights as they obviously had no reason to travel - but I wish I could find out if our reasons are valid.  I did contact my travel insurance company and they thought that because my husband would be completing work on the apartment this would be acceptable - but they are coming back to me to confirm this and the Signing of the Will - I just wanted to check we would have insurance if we traveled - anyone have any idea? 

Pollycat

Nutty75 said:

I still haven’t found the answer if our reason for travel is valid during this lockdown - we have a property in Tenerife that we are hoping to rent out - but before we can rent it - we have a few plumbing issues to sort - and as my husband is a plumber he is carrying out these works himself.   The second reason is that we have been advised to have a Spanish Will drawn up so we have an appointment with our spanish Lawyer to go and sign the Will . Our daughters were due to fly out with us - but as they would be going for a holiday I have cancelled their flights as they obviously had no reason to travel - but I wish I could find out if our reasons are valid.  I did contact my travel insurance company and they thought that because my husband would be completing work on the apartment this would be acceptable - but they are coming back to me to confirm this and the Signing of the Will - I just wanted to check we would have insurance if we traveled - anyone have any idea? 

I think your best bet is to wait and hear what your insurance company say.

Nobody here will know what your policy covers.

bradders1983

Nutty75 said:

I still haven’t found the answer if our reason for travel is valid during this lockdown - we have a property in Tenerife that we are hoping to rent out - but before we can rent it - we have a few plumbing issues to sort - and as my husband is a plumber he is carrying out these works himself.   The second reason is that we have been advised to have a Spanish Will drawn up so we have an appointment with our spanish Lawyer to go and sign the Will . Our daughters were due to fly out with us - but as they would be going for a holiday I have cancelled their flights as they obviously had no reason to travel - but I wish I could find out if our reasons are valid.  I did contact my travel insurance company and they thought that because my husband would be completing work on the apartment this would be acceptable - but they are coming back to me to confirm this and the Signing of the Will - I just wanted to check we would have insurance if we traveled - anyone have any idea? 

Your reasons are valid. There are clear exemptions for preparing a house for rent or sale.

See below...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1200/pdfs/uksi_20201200_en.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjAusPsgPHsAhV-UBUIHf3MBS4QFjAAegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw1pXfRh0VBBI_nhXjSmCxuk


As for insurance, probably not. Look at policies on here, I have no idea how old you are so one or both may not cover you anyway:

https://www.yourtravelcover.com/travel-insurance-fco-travel-ban

epm-84

Nutty75 said:

I still haven’t found the answer if our reason for travel is valid during this lockdown - we have a property in Tenerife that we are hoping to rent out - but before we can rent it - we have a few plumbing issues to sort - and as my husband is a plumber he is carrying out these works himself.   The second reason is that we have been advised to have a Spanish Will drawn up so we have an appointment with our spanish Lawyer to go and sign the Will . Our daughters were due to fly out with us - but as they would be going for a holiday I have cancelled their flights as they obviously had no reason to travel - but I wish I could find out if our reasons are valid.  I did contact my travel insurance company and they thought that because my husband would be completing work on the apartment this would be acceptable - but they are coming back to me to confirm this and the Signing of the Will - I just wanted to check we would have insurance if we traveled - anyone have any idea? 

I'd say no.

Section 12 in the guidance refers to it not being permitted to stay overnight in your second home, as you don't currently rent it out it and don't live there it must be your second home.

Section 13 provides guidance for moving home and it's where people are claiming there's a loophole and you can pretend you're looking at buying a home abroad.  However, the section says "Follow the national guidance on moving home safely" and that links to a page where it specifically talks about moving to a new home in England, so there's nothing to suggest that extends to moving to a home abroad.

It's not your travel insurers responsibility to say whether a trip is legal, it's their responsibility to advise whether the cover you have is suitable for the trip you want to make.  

CKhalvashi

epm-84 said:

Nutty75 said:

I still haven’t found the answer if our reason for travel is valid during this lockdown - we have a property in Tenerife that we are hoping to rent out - but before we can rent it - we have a few plumbing issues to sort - and as my husband is a plumber he is carrying out these works himself.   The second reason is that we have been advised to have a Spanish Will drawn up so we have an appointment with our spanish Lawyer to go and sign the Will . Our daughters were due to fly out with us - but as they would be going for a holiday I have cancelled their flights as they obviously had no reason to travel - but I wish I could find out if our reasons are valid.  I did contact my travel insurance company and they thought that because my husband would be completing work on the apartment this would be acceptable - but they are coming back to me to confirm this and the Signing of the Will - I just wanted to check we would have insurance if we traveled - anyone have any idea? 

I'd say no.

Section 12 in the guidance refers to it not being permitted to stay overnight in your second home, as you don't currently rent it out it and don't live there it must be your second home.

Section 13 provides guidance for moving home and it's where people are claiming there's a loophole and you can pretend you're looking at buying a home abroad.  However, the section says "Follow the national guidance on moving home safely" and that links to a page where it specifically talks about moving to a new home in England, so there's nothing to suggest that extends to moving to a home abroad.

It's not your travel insurers responsibility to say whether a trip is legal, it's their responsibility to advise whether the cover you have is suitable for the trip you want to make.  

So you're saying it's illegal for someone to move abroad?

Not buying that.

Not everyone will be moving to a new home in England. Not legal advice, but IMO OP is therefore entitled to remain in that property overnight, as it's visiting a residential property to undertake any activities required for the rental or sale of that property.

The legislation makes no reference to the property being in England, and therefore it must be assumed as intended to be anywhere within the world. If the Government haven't written the legislation adequately, the onus is on them. That said, the government hasn't adequately done anything since being elected, so getting a piece of legislation correct isn't exactly within their capabilities.

epm-84

CKhalvashi said:

epm-84 said:

Nutty75 said:

I still haven’t found the answer if our reason for travel is valid during this lockdown - we have a property in Tenerife that we are hoping to rent out - but before we can rent it - we have a few plumbing issues to sort - and as my husband is a plumber he is carrying out these works himself.   The second reason is that we have been advised to have a Spanish Will drawn up so we have an appointment with our spanish Lawyer to go and sign the Will . Our daughters were due to fly out with us - but as they would be going for a holiday I have cancelled their flights as they obviously had no reason to travel - but I wish I could find out if our reasons are valid.  I did contact my travel insurance company and they thought that because my husband would be completing work on the apartment this would be acceptable - but they are coming back to me to confirm this and the Signing of the Will - I just wanted to check we would have insurance if we traveled - anyone have any idea? 

I'd say no.

Section 12 in the guidance refers to it not being permitted to stay overnight in your second home, as you don't currently rent it out it and don't live there it must be your second home.

Section 13 provides guidance for moving home and it's where people are claiming there's a loophole and you can pretend you're looking at buying a home abroad.  However, the section says "Follow the national guidance on moving home safely" and that links to a page where it specifically talks about moving to a new home in England, so there's nothing to suggest that extends to moving to a home abroad.

It's not your travel insurers responsibility to say whether a trip is legal, it's their responsibility to advise whether the cover you have is suitable for the trip you want to make.  

So you're saying it's illegal for someone to move abroad?

Not buying that.

Not everyone will be moving to a new home in England. Not legal advice, but IMO OP is therefore entitled to remain in that property overnight, as it's visiting a residential property to undertake any activities required for the rental or sale of that property.

The legislation makes no reference to the property being in England, and therefore it must be assumed as intended to be anywhere within the world. If the Government haven't written the legislation adequately, the onus is on them. That said, the government hasn't adequately done anything since being elected, so getting a piece of legislation correct isn't exactly within their capabilities.

Whether it's legal or not, realistically you can't buy a house in 95% of Europe as either local restrictions would get in the way or you'd have to self-isolate for 2 weeks each time you return, which would prevent you from letting anyone view your home in England. If you argue you'd be buying a second home then you might have to prove that's covered, given travelling to a second home isn't covered.

I think for most people if they claimed they were going to the Canaries to buy a house, if either the police or border control asked a few basic questions about their plans, they'd quickly find out it's a lie as buying a house needs a lot of planning, not just phoning up some random estate agent in Spain and making an appointment you plan to cancel as soon as you arrive.

The big issue for the poster in question is it does specifically say staying in your second home is not permitted and that doesn't have an exception for those repairing a home ahead of sale.  In the circumstances it would probably be easier to just get a local workman to do the necessary work or to postpone it for a few weeks.

CKhalvashi

epm-84 said:

CKhalvashi said:

epm-84 said:

Nutty75 said:

I still haven’t found the answer if our reason for travel is valid during this lockdown - we have a property in Tenerife that we are hoping to rent out - but before we can rent it - we have a few plumbing issues to sort - and as my husband is a plumber he is carrying out these works himself.   The second reason is that we have been advised to have a Spanish Will drawn up so we have an appointment with our spanish Lawyer to go and sign the Will . Our daughters were due to fly out with us - but as they would be going for a holiday I have cancelled their flights as they obviously had no reason to travel - but I wish I could find out if our reasons are valid.  I did contact my travel insurance company and they thought that because my husband would be completing work on the apartment this would be acceptable - but they are coming back to me to confirm this and the Signing of the Will - I just wanted to check we would have insurance if we traveled - anyone have any idea? 

I'd say no.

Section 12 in the guidance refers to it not being permitted to stay overnight in your second home, as you don't currently rent it out it and don't live there it must be your second home.

Section 13 provides guidance for moving home and it's where people are claiming there's a loophole and you can pretend you're looking at buying a home abroad.  However, the section says "Follow the national guidance on moving home safely" and that links to a page where it specifically talks about moving to a new home in England, so there's nothing to suggest that extends to moving to a home abroad.

It's not your travel insurers responsibility to say whether a trip is legal, it's their responsibility to advise whether the cover you have is suitable for the trip you want to make.  

So you're saying it's illegal for someone to move abroad?

Not buying that.

Not everyone will be moving to a new home in England. Not legal advice, but IMO OP is therefore entitled to remain in that property overnight, as it's visiting a residential property to undertake any activities required for the rental or sale of that property.

The legislation makes no reference to the property being in England, and therefore it must be assumed as intended to be anywhere within the world. If the Government haven't written the legislation adequately, the onus is on them. That said, the government hasn't adequately done anything since being elected, so getting a piece of legislation correct isn't exactly within their capabilities.

Whether it's legal or not, realistically you can't buy a house in 95% of Europe as either local restrictions would get in the way or you'd have to self-isolate for 2 weeks each time you return, which would prevent you from letting anyone view your home in England. If you argue you'd be buying a second home then you might have to prove that's covered, given travelling to a second home isn't covered.

I think for most people if they claimed they were going to the Canaries to buy a house, if either the police or border control asked a few basic questions about their plans, they'd quickly find out it's a lie as buying a house needs a lot of planning, not just phoning up some random estate agent in Spain and making an appointment you plan to cancel as soon as you arrive.

The big issue for the poster in question is it does specifically say staying in your second home is not permitted and that doesn't have an exception for those repairing a home ahead of sale.  In the circumstances it would probably be easier to just get a local workman to do the necessary work or to postpone it for a few weeks.

It doesn't mention anything about second homes in that section.

The section states that there is a specific exemption to undertake any activities required for the rental or sale of that property. That is what OP is doing, and therefore is bound by a clear exemption, whether it's a first, second, third or tenth home.

Whether someone needs to isolate on return is again completely irrelevant to whether OP can travel for work to be done on a property the the letting of that property. There is currently no isolation requirement from the Canaries, and last time I checked, Tenerife was one of the Canary Islands.

Please stop making the law up as you go along, it doesn't help OP.

ToxicWomble

Technically it might be allowed, but it’s not urgent and can wait 3 weeks. Nothing much else is happening across Europe

Whilst people continue to loophole and circumnavigate the law and justify why they should not follow rules and advice -  this mess is going to drag on for many months longer than it needs to.

Doing what is asked of you is NOT going to hurt you or your family, in fact it may protect them from harm.

Personally I don’t agree with this lockdown, but I’m doing it and not trying to buck the system at every turn.
Yes high profile people have broken  the rules - but take the moral high ground and don’t sink to their level.

I haven’t had a holiday this year and won’t be booking abroad next year - it won’t kill me or hurt me - there’s always (hopefully) the year after. The world won’t end if you miss your oh so precious holiday but life might get back to normal quicker if you just do what’s right.

I see a lot of criticism of the government on here - I suggest the cause of a significant proportion of this mess is a lot closer to your home than you think.

I have ZERO sympathy for posters that don’t do what they know is right and believe their freedoms and life is more important than anyone else’s and even less for those who actively encourage this behaviour. 

Karma is a .... and it will come and get you when you least expect.